The Lisbon Treaty was signed. The UK has no choice. Do you honestly think Cameron has any say in what goes on? He is a puppet. The UK will not and cannot leave the EU, it will never happen! Finland was on TV telling those in the UK to wake up and smell the coffee. Basically he was saying the UK have no choice. Conspiracy would say this is World Government, it is a European State and you and all of us are in it. Honestly, do you think politicians care about you or this Country?
[QUOTE="Pete1950, post: 381727, member: 23049"] At the time the various candidates were being picked, several months ago, he could have influenced the centre-right to adopt some candidate other than Juncker - but he did nothing. During the election campaign, he could have campaigned for one of the four other candidates - but he did not. Even after the election results were in and the centre-right had won, he could have tried to persuade the other 27 states to support an alternative candidate - but he chose never to say whom he wanted, so that was a non-starter. Today he could have gone along with the overwhelming consensus in the both the Council and the Parliament - but he chose the path of isolation. He could have welcomed the enhanced democratic accountability which comes from the new linking of Commission appointments to Parliamentary elections - but he chose to stand out, alone, against democracy. [/QUOTE] I struggle with how moving power further away from the the voters, the demos, to a centralised authority increases democracy.
As Pete said: "The trouble is, his own party may see him as more like Neville Chamberlain" .........and so do I.
Not really...........If UKIP steal thousands more votes from the Tories and the Tories lose the next General Election because of that; then there won't be a Referendum on leaving the UK, 'cos Labour certainly ain't gonna give us one.
I would imagine that having a backbone would have something to do with his stance. Just because a view is not popular does not make it wrong. Quote from t'bbc: Wolfgang Schauble said his country would do everything in its power to keep Britain in the union. "Clearly, we have in many economic questions and regulatory questions a broad consensus," he said. "Historically, politically, democratically, culturally, Great Britain is entirely indispensable for Europe." He missed out 'Economically'. But if he didn't and we are 'entirely indispensable', shouldn't we be listened to occasionally? On this issue, fair enough, a vote was held and our view wasn't the majority. But FFS, if we are so indispensable, why is pretty much every view so entirely alien to our way of life?
We need to, in the words of some old song, accentuate the positives. Everyone dwells on the neagtives far too much.
Really? That's your analysis? David Cameron showed no sign of a backbone when the candidates were being chosen, no sign of a backbone during the election campaign, and no sign of a backbone during the subsequent inter-governmental negotiations. Then he suddenly discovered a backbone long after the issue was already cut and dried, by which time it was far too late for anything he said to make the slightest difference. If DC really wanted somebody other than JC Juncker, he could have achieved that purpose by setting about it differently, and sooner. On reflection, I am inclined to think that it actually suits DC very well to have Juncker heading the Commission, and last week's charade was a show designed to distance himself publicly from that outcome. It means that whatever happens next, and whatever the Commission may do, DC will be in a position to criticise it, dissociate himself from everything, and deflect any blame there might be. The advantage this will give him in heading off the far right over the coming months is on balance worth accepting last week's public humiliation - if that was his political judgement he may well be correct.
On your hypothesis, if power were moved further away from voters that would not increase democracy, as you say. In reality however what we have seen in Europe this year is power moving closer to voters, as the votes cast in direct parliamentary elections and the outcome of those elections directly affect the complexion of the Commission. David Cameron has incidentally demonstrated for the first time that the nomination of the President of the Commission does not have to be unanimous (i.e. it is not possible for any one member state to hold the other 27 states to ransom). Given that it was the Centre-Right group which got the most votes and the most seats, it is encouraging to see that other groups such as the Centre and the Centre-Left (although they are not too happy about the fact that they didn't win the election), all support the principle that it is the election winner who must form the administration - and that principle is not to be subverted by private deals struck elsewhere. This is the kind of British-style parliamentary democracy which the whole of Europe has embraced. And we should all be proud of that.
