I wonder if you have a Muslim related thread on a BNP or EDL forum it picks up those ads...not THAT would be funny!
Because of its connections with football and people like EDL I find the George cross offensive, as its only used for separatist occasions. The flag of my nation, and the flag I'm proud of is the union flag. Yes EDL, YOU are responsible for damaging the flag you claim to love - YOU are enemies of Great Britain.
The Sun are entitled to print what they like, as long as it complies with the law. However, what surprises me is that people read it and those that do read it actually believe what's printed in it !. By the way, I don't read the Times, Telegraph or Guardian or any other newspaper as they all have their own political agenda and "slant" on the news. What is really sad, though, is the anti-Muslim posts on this thread. Don't get me wrong, I defend people's right to say what they want, but people really need to think about what they are saying and the Sun, in a blatant attempt to sell its daily rag, is stirring up racial tension at a time when it's least needed. I live in a muslim country and despite what many westerners might think (and some of the crap that's been printed in the UK papers) it's a much safer place to live (apart from driving) than the UK. I've been made to feel welcome, within reason I can do whatever I want in public and anything else that doesn't cause injury or harm to others, behind closed doors or with discretion. No local has ever discussed religion with me (just as well because I'm an atheist), they are kind, courteous, helpful, friendly and tolerant of other religions (yes, muslims believe in the prophet Jesus). Above all, they are disgusted and saddened that their religion, which teaches peace and tolerance, has been hijacked by a violent minority in a twisted and perverted attempt to justify violence. Guys, please think about what you are posting on this forum and think about what's happened in the past when the media stirred up racial hatred - NAZISM !
Guys, please think about what you are posting on this forum and think about what's happened in the past when the media stirred up racial hatred - NAZISM ![/QUOTE] it wasn't the media that caused the issues in Europe with the Nazi's... That was a political party, led by a megalomaniac, and the German public who were sadly the masses that were led, temporarily, by mass hysteria and and the views of the minority.
It didn't happen in a vacuum. The media must have been racist at the time. BTW, if you read your history you will find out that the Nazis were only one of many parties at the beginning preaching racial hatred. It was just that they were the first to reach the tipping point thanks to, amongst other things, amazing propaganda. And where does propaganda end up? Yup, in the media.
I posted this on 25 May. Did I get it wrong, Flyer47? "In the light of recent terrorist atrocities by islamists I notice some people condemning all muslims indiscriminately, and others defending moderate muslims by contrast with extremists. It seems to me that, in the UK at least, only a very small percentage of muslims are committed to shooting, bombing, beheading, and generally terrorising people they disapprove of. There is a similar small percentage of pathological murderers in other communities too, and it would be wrong and unfair to characterise all muslims as terrorists. But there is a bit more to it than that. Most muslims, including so-called moderate ones, appear to believe in and practice, among other things: * gross discrimination against women * gross discrimination against gays * mutilating the genitals of children * enforcing strict but absurd rules about food and drink * suppressing freedom of speech and publication * promoting creationism as against scientific evolution * enforcing strict dress codes * persecuting people who cease to be muslims * opposing human rights, equal justice and democracy. In my opinion, not being a murderer or a terrorist is a good start, but most ordinary muslims would need to develop their attitudes quite a long way before they could be properly called "moderate" even by the standards of mainstream christian churches in the 21st century.
The problem is Muslim beliefs make it easy for extremists to manipulate these beliefs and brainwash them. When I see Muslims on telly preaching if your not a Muslim you will burn in hell this makes me think their religion is a load of shit. As for EDL they might only have one brain cell between the lot of them but you can't blame people for acting out after recent attrocities they have a good reason to be angry
I heard the EDL leader on R4 ther other day and he was cogent, came across as well read on the different Islamic sects and generally handled the interview well. The interviewer (can't remeber her name now, Montague?) clearly thought it would be a walkover but she was under-prepared and ended up sounding silly. He made some points I agree with (ie that there are peaceful Islamic sects but it's the Sunni and Shias that are the problem because of their particular interpretation of Islam, NOT the extremists in Islam as a whole. And the fact they want to annihilate each other). It goes against the clutural relativistic mind set of the typical BBC leftist to openly condem a religious group as a whole, but in the case of these two it needs saying openly without fear of being accused of being a closed-minded racist. The problem we often have in discussions on the subject of Islam is the lumping of all the various different factions together as if they are a single unit, and that it's the individual 'extremists' that are the problem. As Sam Harris points out it's the moderates that create the environement for extremism to flourish. Some world views are simply bad and dangerous and that's it. Lets not forget that some great scientific and mathematical advances were made by Islamic scholars way back when (we get the world Algebra from an Islamic scholar's work entitled 'Kitāb al-jabr wa al-muqābalah" ) so there is a possability for Islamic reform. /soapbox
it wasn't the media that caused the issues in Europe with the Nazi's... That was a political party, led by a megalomaniac, and the German public who were sadly the masses that were led, temporarily, by mass hysteria and and the views of the minority.[/QUOTE] Er, and how did that mass hysteria come about ? By Herr Goebels and his use of the press and radio. How did attitudes change towards the Jews ? By press, radio, cinema and posters. How did the communist party in Russia keep control ? The elite in North Korea ?
I'm not here to defend any person or any religion, but the Muslims on the telly are only on the telly because of their beliefs, it improves ratings. I live in a Muslim country and I've never heard anything hear that you hear and see in the UK. However, there's a big difference between Sunni and Shi'ite muslims !
I can only go by the country I live in and I would say yes, you are very wrong. *Gross discrimination against women is totally incorrect. They are usually the bosses, they decide on where to live, what house to buy and when to start a family. They work, I am busy training many women as airline pilots. They are independent, free minded, free spirited and bloody good pilots. *Gross discrimination against gays. There are many gay local guys where I live. They may not be "out" but they are here. It's not in the open but nobody cares about what goes on behind closed doors. *Mutilating the genitals of children, well female circumcision doesn't exist here. Male circumcision does, but it does in Israel as well. *Strict rules on food and drink. You're joking ! The locals go out for a pint (it's almost a legal requirement up the road in Bahrain). You need a liquor licence (if you want to transport alcohol) which you get from your company, it takes five minutes. All the hotels sell every alcoholic drink you could think of and there are plenty of shops to buy it from. Every supermarket has a "non-muslim" section where you can buy whatever pork product you want. The only restriction is you cannot buy alcohol in a hotel during daylight hours in ramadan (only when the locals are fasting). However, this isn't due to religious fervour, what all the ex-pats do here is respect the fact that someone is going to go the whole day in temperatures of 50 deg + without eating or drinking, so we don't walk down the road drinking a beer and eating a sausage roll. It's to help the local guys keep their mind off food and drink. *There's no suppression of freedom of speech here. There are numerous talk radio shows, newspapers (including the Sun and yes it does have the page 3) I listen to the BBC Worldservice on my car radio whilst driving to work and internet access in totally unrestricted. *There's no promotion of creationism, you can think or believe what you want. *There's no dress code. In shopping malls there is a small sticker on the door politely asking customers to wear T-shirts that cover their shoulders, most people ignore it and dress as they would in any hot country. Nobody will say anything to you. *Persecuting non-muslims ? That is the biggest joke I've heard. Their faith teaches them to be tolerant and open-minded and to welcome visitors. Believe me, you haven't been made to feel welcome and eaten a proper dinner until you've been to a locals house in my part of the world. I'm an airline pilot and most of my job involves training young locals. In all my time here, no one has ever mentioned religion. Very occasionally, someone might ask if they can pray, they take a moment to themselves and that's it. You cannot lump muslims into one big pot and generalise, just as you can't generalise about the Middle East. There maybe countries in this region that are as you suggest but I haven't found one. I'm happy where I live and it's not just about the tax free salary, I've made my money already. But it's very relaxed, safe and laid back. Crime is low, I've been made to feel welcome and at home. Despite what you might think, muslims are normal people. They may dress differently and follow a different religion, but they have the same fears, problems, hang-ups and desires as any westerner. I do get a sense that some local people are concerned that they are all viewed by foreigners as terrorists and it deeply upsets them. However, these are just ordinary people.
What country are you living in, Flyer? A friend of mine is now working in Oman, which I think she quite likes. At any rate, she likes it a lot more than Kuweit, which she hated.
Fack 'em all. I was in the carriage behind when the London bombs went off (u luckily enough as I should have been off that day)... Talk about moderation to some of the people I saw with missing limbs or worse that day...
I live in the UAE in Abu Dhabi. I used to live in Dubai where Friday night was worse than Newcastle. Abu Dhabi is very relaxed and laid back. I've heard good and bad things about Kuwait but it's not a place for me, nor is Saudi. Oman is great, really nice down to earth people and a nicer climate. Don't get me wrong, this is no utopia. There are many things I don't like, such as how locals (and many ex-pats) treat their maids. The Indian, Bangladeshi and Pakistani construction workers that slave away in the desert heat (they have three hours off at midday during summer) for peanuts. The taxi drivers that work 12 hours on/12 hours off everyday for 10 months and then have 2 months off. There are cultural differences such as not making hand gestures if someone cuts you up in traffic or, if someone drives into you, getting out and smashing them in the face is a big no-no, you politely shake their hand and they'll admit responsibility. The summer heat and humidity, the driving standards (or lack of them) the lack of knowledge amongst staff in shops, restaurants and garages and the general lack of standards. Pushing your wife/girlfriend into a shop doorway and sticking your tongue down her throat is going to be frowned upon but if the police see you they'll just politely tell you to stop. Walking hand in hand is normal for ex-pats and locals. You have to give up some freedoms here but it's a trade off for the gains you receive. Virtually no crime, I can leave my bike and it won't be touched, I never lock the car or the house door. However, this anti-muslim sentiment and that they are all women hating terrorists is non-sense, they are generally a good bunch of ordinary people that dress differently and follow a different religion. Don't let the dark clothed women fool you, the young ones leave home wearing it, get into their car and take it off and underneath they're wearing a skimpy little dress and they go to the nearest nightclub !
