That MCN article is just wrong on so many levels. If the "899" is identical to an 1199, apart from the engine capacity, there will be no way they can sell it for anything other than 1199 money, otherwise they'd be losing money (or making pennies) on each model sold. If they are going to make an "899" as "near" identical to an 1199 but reduce cost, you have to start looking at ways to reduce the cost of the parts that make up the bike to allow you to sell it at a cheaper price point but still make money. Some ideas where you could do this would be to remove the expensive fancy stuff like quickshifter, abs, fly-by-wire, electronic suspension, LED headlight, cheaper shock and forks, cheaper calipers, cheaper wheels, cheaper swingarm (maybe conventional not single-sided), etc etc. You would keep common parts such as the fancy TFT screen though. Once all that expensive kit has been taken off it, you may get down to 848 money ... although it's a good opportunity to justify a price rise over current models, so think 848 + £500 or so as your base model price. Now you've done that you can start adding parts back on, call it an "S" model and start charging more money for it. A full-blown "899 Tricolore" with all the 1199 trimmings would probably be into 1199S money at around £18k. Just my opinion...
This is EXACTLY the case of the 1098 and the 848. They were identical machines other than the engine but no real difference in price. So Ducati inflated the price of the 1098 and subsidised the cost of an 848. So the base 1098 was about 11,500 and the 848 was about 9,000 but in reality they would both have been about 10,000 And if we look at the price of the 1199 bikes out at the moment.... do they look a little artificially high? Could they be subsidising a smaller capacity version?....
Go back and look at some of the more technical issues with producing a small capacity SuperQuadro engine using the current engine design. On all previous engines it was a case of changing the barrels, pistons and con-rods to get a different capacity. Easy. The SuperQuadro engine doesn't have barrels, as it uses integrated liners. If you look at the bore/stroke numbers to find the correct over-square characteristics of the SuperQuadro engine, you would need to fit massive liners into the engine to use the correct bore/stoke, and that is a technical issue that you would first need to overcome before you create the smaller engine. Maybe the smaller engine will have different cases to take up some of that space? But that means different production, revision on other parts, different mounting points (?), different weight distribution and/or load characteristics... all of this stuff takes time and money to figure out, and could be too costly to consider even doing it. But as I said before, I'm not ruling it out completely but just offering some opinion on why it's not as easy as chucking on a new barrel and pistons to get a smaller engine...
Go and ask your dealer what they are doing in October! I think you can be fairly certain most of them know about it now.
I for one think the 1199 is being sold at an inflated cost, it may be a Ducati but I'm afraid those days are long gone paying such a high premium for the brand as they've fallen behind especially in superbikes. Other areas maybe not, the multi is definitely market leading and maybe the monster. Dont get me wrong, lovely bike but would I buy one at full money? Not a chance. the technology is dripping through now to all, only Honda need to update the blade and Suzuki the gsxr. i mean lets be honest, who actually gives a toss about the quadra engine? It's not exactly been that well received in comparison to the s1000 power plant and aprilias rsv4 so really what you paying over the odds for? Is it beautiful? I guess it looks nice yes, but so do other bikes. Is it the ohlins etc on the £20k model? Well yes I suppose but then again you can have a full on stonking rsv4 factory se which will give you that and arguably the best electronics going for much cheaper. im not slating people who've purchased them but I don't think the panigale 1199 was ever going to capture the heart of the masses because its simply not better than the competition in anyway other than looks and that's subjective. Radical yes but I think Ducatis Motogp team are radical but its not proven to be great has it. Saying that a more attainable 899 is likely to do better because more people can afford one and its also likely to beat the Mv, gsxr750 etc and have better road manners.
That would sound like a reasonable argument, wouldn't it? Were it not for the fact that they have already produced a 748 from a 916, a 749 from a 999 and an 848 from a 1098. In every case your argument should apply, but it clearly doesn't. You also have to consider the economies of scale and the likely price reduction on parts if you can make enough of them. So doubling volume production would give you some sort of discount on the bits. Then from an accountancy point of view, you have to consider the spread of the fixed costs for the model development over more units sold. Once again, making the smaller bike makes sense here. Then you have to wonder if the factory is operating at full capacity. If it isn't, you get more economies because factoring more production is also offset against overheads. So yes, you might have an engineering argument why they wouldn't make one, but you have neglected the accountancy arguments as to why they would. And there are a few ways they could go. They could retain a belt-drive engine whilst making it with Panigale styling. They could go the full-blown mini-Panigale, or they could make something entirely different but using some of the same bits (which, let's face it, would be more exciting). If the thing has a double-sided banana swing arm, that could suggest that the model might not just be a slavish copy of a Panigale.
It'll be interesting to see the price, Ducati use to be able to sell on the fact they were constant WSB contenders, it seems with the new 1199 its not so all we'll get is a smaller engined version of an expensive bike with no Pedigree.
That mcn article is total bollocks. Either the 1199 is massively marked up, or the replacement will be sold at a loss or just breaking even to have the same spec.
1199 marked up as a platform to subsidise a smaller capacity model. Seems sense to me, as long as they have sold enough to cover the development costs on the higer price 1199 the nits just part and build costs so cant see it being much of a loss leader bike
At the dealers today the conversation went from 'we know as much about it as you' to 'yes it'll be a frameless bike with a new engine deriverd from the 1199'. My money is on it being true.
One thing's for sure, they won't be selling them at a price that makes a loss or break even. It will have been worked out by the bean counters at Audi to the nut and bolt!
Interesting times. The 848 always was a "price point" bike for Ducati, hence there never was an S or R version...Few nice tweaks and specials later on...Been a huge success for the company I'll bet! Of course there's a "point", a very good marketing one for starters, as well as an owners...Some people simply do not want a 1200cc beast and are more comfortable with a mid - power machine. 150hp ain't no slug, wasn't that long ago that would have been respectable output for a WSB bike. New model releases are always fun as "spy" pics are filtered out...:wink:
So what would most of you guys rather have in the new bike, a mini panigale with smaller superquadro motor or keep it more like an evolution of the 848 ie steel trellis frame 899cc making a bit more power and torque than the 848 but maybe with some panigale styling. I think I'd like to see them keep the steel trellis in the smaller bike if possible.
it would be nice if they did as the 1199 does look mass produced up close, not taking anything away but it could be from any factory.
Either way it's got potential to be an awesome bike just hope they get it right and it's good on road aswell as the track
