I spoke to Michelin yesterday along with Dunlop. Neither have or are expecting a 60 profile rear tyre. Tried to talk to Pirelli/Metzler. Useless customer service. I'll try them again today. The press launch of the 899 was at a soaking Monza where Ducati fitted full wets for the press. I'm wondering what tyre profile that was used.
It's something I would probably have done on buying an 899. Having never had a bike with traction control before, the fact that it didn't work quite right is not really a major stumbling block for me. If the dealer comment about invalidating the warranty is correct I can see Ducati losing a lot of sales. If they have produced a bike that we can only fit one tyre to it's got to affect sales. I was already doubting the Panigale's having noticed that it doesn't look possible to use an Abba stand with them. The fairing partially covers the swingarm pivot mounting point. That seems to be confirmed by the fact that Abba haven't yet produced a kit for the 1199. I've emailed Abba for clarification.
Well I've taken the plunge and had Michelin Pilot 3's fitted. Pirelli tried to tell me the stock tyres would be fine in the wet. Even their web site only rates them as average in wet conditions. Pick the bike up at the weekend. Keep you posted. Coventry Ducati said turn off the T/C or it will get confused.
The ABBA kit can be made to fit the Panigale with correctly sized spigots but will require the lower fairing panels to be removed first. ABBA told me they would make the spigots when they had a Panigale to take measurements from. This was good news as I already use an ABBA for my SS but finally bought a Bursig from Germany with castors and configured for the Panigale. The Bursig still needs the left lower fairing removed but does give you the option of trimming the fairing to avoid this - a step too far for me. Lower fairing removal is no big deal once you have it done a couple of times, carefully of course hope this helps
Emailed Ducati 2 days ago asking for their view on running a different rear tyre. Amazingly they called me from Italy this morning to discuss the issue Apparently to date they only have data for the std tyre and the electronics will only work with this profile. They did sound genuinely sorry that they couldn't sort the problem that the T/C may not work with a different profile. What was more impressive is the fact that the T/C software might be subject to an update some time next year to take other Tyres into account. The fairly well informed lady on the phone repeatedly apologized for restricting the bike to a single Pirelli and when I mentioned that the Aprilia RSV4 had an adaptive T/C system she said that originally that also couldn't work with a non std tyre but they sorted it with software updates. I've offered to tell them how the bike works with the Michelins and have been given an email address to give my feedback. I'm seriously impressed that Ducati Italy would call a customer directly. Can't imagine Honda etc following up customer emails a personal call. Pick my bike up tomorrow morning. Michelins fitted and dry forecast.
Guys, Don't hold your breath, those of us who have had 1199's (with silly standard 200/55 section rear Supercorsas) have waited 18 months for another software update to allow the use of other tyres. It won't arrive. Ours never has. The system is calibrated for one tyre only, as that was the Pirelli stock tyre deal they will have made with Pirelli. My other bike runs a Nemsis system that you can chose every variable and tyre map you like. The difference is night and day. The stock system will get confused when you switch tyre. I switched to a 190/55 as I ride all year round and supercorsas are unusable in winter. You will have the same issue with your 60 or 65 profile tyres. The only other tyres in that section are race tyres (Dunlop NTecs and Bridgestone race wets for eg - that I run on my 848 track bike). So on the 1199, I switched to a 190/55 and just turn the system level down as you get a lot of false TC intervention above level 4 simply due to the altered tyre profile, which should have a different slip map provided, but which doesn't. FYI, their earlier system on the 1098r only worked on a 190/55 Supercorsa as well, but as you switched tyres to other 190/55 section tyres, the difference in slip map was less significant and it only bothered the system a limited amount. This system gets completely confused as you are swapping from significantly different tyre profiles to standard rubber. Sorry, but no amount of nice phone calls from Ducati are going to result in a different outcome. Unless they do eventually decide to release a software update to both bikes that allows you to change slip maps on the bikes. But without some kind of software interface (external, or like the Aprillia system), not sure how that would work. You need to plug your laptop into the Nemesis system to select tyre maps and then download to the system......
Well if you are correct and it's just corporate BS from Ducati I need to know a bit more about alternative systems. Are you saying that your Nemisis talks to the Ducati T/C system or overrides it completely. There is no way want to be locked into Pirelli tyres just because Ducati are playing the patriotic game. Just how many tires are they going to sell that warrants resticting the 899 to a stupid 60 profile rear. I don't really know why they have chosen to go for the 60 profile as the only advantage seems to be a bigger footprint on the side of the tire. This is great for racing but what bikes are 899's going to race against that will give the bike an advantage? The 600 super stock bikes in BSB are all running 180/60 but that's about it as far as I know. No manufacturer makes a 60 profile rear other than Pirelli, and that includes Metzler and having spoken to Dunlop and Michelin they have no plans for tires other than 55 profile.
I was talking to a few lads yesterday about changing the 1199 tyres and they recon it transforms the bike in feel and they fitted 190/55 rears and turned the t/c down ,all I spoke to said how crap the o/e tyre is for every day use
Its does kinda make fun of the top spec Ducati electronics package though doesn't it. The Aprc has been able to do it since at least 2011, possibly before. Its not like Ducati didnt know the ability of that system or have the in house experience to write the software, they simply chose not to. i mean the system is ok if your running the tyre they want you to run, so the SF1098, 1198, Multi all run a 190/55 so are available in abundance. But when it comes to the panigales (1199/899) or the SF848 then its a bit piss poor as your so restricted to either 200/55's or 180/60's Its nothing short of an attempted lock in to Pirelli and no doubt a big fat brown envelope full of cash.
Exactly how have Ducati tied into Pirelli? 200/55 ZR17s are also available from Dunlop (Sportmax), Michelin (Power cup / Power one), Conti (Sport attack) and even an alternative from Pirelli (Diablo Rosso corsa). I am NOT advocating any of these in preference to the OEM fitment as I have no issue with SCs at all but at the end of the day they are Summer tyres designed for dry roads with limited wet weather capability on par with BT016s I use on my SS. A requirement for an all year round option is understandable as any Summer sport tyre will be out of its depth in the cold UK winter temps just as it is on cars. Why the fixation about running 190s? Because the Pani won't turn in fast enough? Sorry Guys but in my opinion this is utter Bollox. Get the bike properly set up for your weight, intended use, riding style and ability. If it really can't be achieved, which I sincerely doubt, then look at alternatives. There may be other reasons for change on track as Cham alludes to above but for road use, no way. After all reducing footprint reduces traction does it not Just my 2 cents
Not sure about the 1199 Panigale but the 899 has a 60 profile rear as I said and not a single manufacturer makes a 180/60 rear tire so Ducati have restricted riders to 2 tires. Both are Pirelli and even Pirelli's web site does not rate them for cold wet conditions. I personally think that is a shit situation for bikers who shell out £12500 who want to ride in the autumn and winter!
Guys, To clarify: 899 runs the 180/60 Pirelli; and no-one else even makes tyres in that section other than the stock Pirelli, so that's a summer only tyre. Similar height tyre is this : Dunlop KR106 / KR108 - Demon Tweeks which is an outright summer slick race tyre in a 185/65. But not the same profile. 1199 runs the 200/55 Pirelli; summer only track day cut slicks. I have caned these before on the road and you still cannot get them even moderately hot, warm maybe on the hottest days, but barely a temperature I would contemplate pushing on. By comparison I have run them on track and they are pretty good. Now, correct, you can also get other 200/55 tyres, like the GP Racer 211 (discontinued) summer use track day cut slicks, but not the Sportsmarts or anything similar, which are again only available in a 190/55. But regardless, even if you can find the same section, each tyre profile is very different, and given that the slip maps are therefore written to deal with the differences in rolling circumferences of front to rear at various levels of lean, you need a different map for each tyre. Even if the same section. My point was that the older 1098R systems were also a single tyre only system, but at least swapping tyres from the Pirellis to another 190/55 tyre gave some, but fewer TC errrors. But with not only a different tyre profile, but also different tyre size (which significantly changes the profile), you get consistent TC errors. With my system on the 1199, it's on with almost every throttle opening coming out of a corner unless I switch it off. The reason for changing is simple. Nothing other than race/track day cut slick type tyres are available in a 200/55 or a 180/60 or a 185/65. Nor are Dunlop NTec 195/65's usable on the Panigale for the same reason. So, if you want to run a road tyre usable throughout UK weather, you need to change to a 180/55 or a 190/55 realistically. You need to alter the rear ride height to accommodate the change in geometry, which is fine, but the TC systems will not work correctly. Similarly, if you want to run NTec slicks (my earlier choice) you again have to turn off the TC system on track. As for systems like the Nemsis, it overrides the Ducati system completely, you add a full system which actually overrides the ECU TC system entirely and cuts ignition by individually controlling each ignition coil itself. It comes with a slave ECU which you can separately update for each bike/tyre/race/track option. Maps are available for most tyres, including most race tyres. But they are also separately available if then mapped and added to the software, which can be emailed to you. It isn't the only system available, but it does work and I am sure that Motecs etc all work well too. It isn't a five minute install though, JHP did mine and it took an entire day. I am glad Nigel was so patient! How are you guys getting along with the 899's then so far BTW? I am keen to ride one by comparison to see how they are compared to the 1199. I am a big fan of my 848, which was a great road bike, and am wondering if the 899 will also be a better road bike than the 1199 potentially.....
On the road, having only done 120 miles, so far the bike is great. Engine spins so sweetly, way smoother than my KTM RC8R. As for the tires Im not prepared to ride on summer tires hence getting the dealer to change to the brilliant Michelins. Tires are truly amazing in crap conditions and ridden with some caution they grip as though the road is dry. I've ridden on Super Corsa's and they are just so unsuitable for crap roads that they remove any enjoyment whatsoever. I can't see the point of tip toeing around which is the only way to ride track biased tires. Ducati need a kick up the arse about this issue. I can't imagine their German owners would approve of this attitude. For gods sake you can't even try the bike with German tires! How about we start sending individual emails of complaint and see if strength in numbers gets a response?
Not sure why 899 equipment (Rosso Cs) of different size is relevant on an 1199 thread (Pirelli Super Cs) but FYI your 899 size rear of 180/60 17 is also available from Metzeler (racetec), Conti (race attack) and alternatives from Pirelli (Diablo, Diablo Supercorsa and the beloved Supercorsa SC v2), Metzeler and Conti being German, of course. hope this helps
Are sure about a 180/60 being available in Metzler and Conti? I called Pirelli/Metzler UK and was told no 60 profile rears are available in any Metzler tire and as you state the only Pirelli's are track biased and even less suited to winter roads than the stock fitment. No sizes on the Conti site web site to suit either. Not surprising really since the 899 Panigale is the only bike,seemingly in the world,with a 180/60 rear!
