Losers: Lee Rigby RIP His Family The offenders Winners: Barristers who will gain financially So I conclude that the only winners are the Barristers not unless I have left someone out
I'd suggest the BNP may win too, along with any extremist group who can jump on the back of British muslims killing on our soil. Compare this to the marine on the frontline who shot the insurgent...murder the same my arse!
Are we suggesting an 'Eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth'? isn't this what the 2 accused stated after killing Lee Rigby? Wouldn't we therefore be no better than them? The saying that as a race we would all soon be blind comes to mind. I find what they did abhorrent but we need to rise above vengeance to show as a nation unity, irrespective of race religion creed and colour. Or we become tainted by it and they become martyrs.
My concern would be that they didn't spend the term of their natural lives in prison but were out in twenty five years. I also find the whole fact that they would still have 'rights' in prison unpalatable, we have absolute unquestionable proof of their act, and yet they will be treated as human beings with dignity and rights as befits our legal system. I believe that their remorse in the years to come, if any is shown would be because they gain awareness of what they couldn't do rather than what they took away from someone else. The consequence of their actions would extend to the fact they have to shit in front of their cell mate, and they get to have sex with whoever's turn it is in the barrel. Personally, for such individuals if we cannot retire them from existence, surely these are the candidates for all those medical tests, and alpha drug trials. After all, what does society gain from keeping such individuals in a state of incarceration other than them not being out in the wild? Why not have the death penalty in such extreme cases, where the evidence is so unquestionable that the only possible verdict is guilty? As for the servicemen in Afghanistan, I think that any organised army has that spectre over them, and its always going to haunt them, the raking up of Falklands 'war crimes' some time back being an example. And I didn't think that the panorama northern Ireland campaign programme a few weeks ago was any good either very biased and an almost Mel Gibsonesque desire to re-write the moral viewpoints. It reminds me of a line from Marillion's Forgotten Sons; "Crawling behind a Saracen's hull from the safety of his living room chair" Its easy for me to pontificate sat in a chair watching it all going on, but I don't feel the heightened sense of emotion or awareness that those guys in the field feel, nor do I have any idea what it must be like to be chatting to a bloke one minute and then see the side of his head disappear to a rifle shot in the next breath. I do think its sad however to think that the enemy may perceive a fighter who walks up to an injured British serviceman and puts a bullet into his head as some sort of hero. But I digress. If life meant life and the conditions were deplorable then maybe, if I knew that they would be stripped of all dignity and self respect, then maybe, but at the moment I don't feel that a 'British' life sentence is right. The view's a bit extreme I know, and for that I can only apologise.
Understand the point and to a degree have always taken a similar view, but tbh unless these guys go into solitary for their entire life anything else is too lenient, plus there is a risk of danger to them in general population and to future liberals believing they have repented and let them out, never mid them becoming heroes and preaching and converting others There are moments in life where set principles and beliefs are challenged. For me this is one of the, and i'm finding it tough not tobelieve the best outcome would be at the end of a noose
Given that the death penalty ceased to be used in UK 50 years ago, and has since been abolished in all 47 countries in the Council of Europe and in most of the nations of the world, it is extraordinary that anyone can imagine there is anything to debate. The debates about this topic came to a conclusion, thankfully, in our grandfathers' time. It is a subject of historical interest only. Even if there were to be a discussion about the principles of punishments, including judicial killing and torturing, the most unsuitable possible time for it is during a trial of a particular case. Whatever sentences for crimes ought to be, they have to apply to the full range of all possible crimes not just to the special circumstances of today's crime. If crimes are to be prosecuted and defended, people have to be employed to do the job and these are barristers. They have to be paid for their work. Bizarrely, some posters in this thread seem to imagine there is something wrong with barristers being paid to do their job, although they do not explain why. Should defendants go unprosecuted and undefended? Or should barristers work for nothing? In the present case (as in the Norwegian Anders Breivik case), the facts of what occurred are probably not in dispute, but the real issue is whether the defendants are sane or insane; so is it prison or Broadmoor? Since the D pleaded not guilty, presumably the defence will seek to show they are insane. A very difficult matter to resolve, and no doubt we shall hear more about it later.
Let them have their day in court. It is their right as uk citizens. I don't think I speak out of turn when I say that their guilt is in no doubt. They will not have a sound defence that will justify their actions in anyway. Am I appalled at what they did? Very much so. Will they ever be let out of prison as free men? Highly unlikely, even if they get handed a 25yrs minimum. The law can and indeed has remanded people in custody for an effectively unlimited amount of time. To be honest thou, the chances of them actually surviving 25yrs in jail, is, in my opinion, extremely low.
You think more likely they will be attacked in prison than a child molesterer and murderer? Yes they survive. Unlike the states who, the media presents, chuck the, all in one large melting pot we dont. We will put the, with other likeminded individuals.
Well one good thing came out in court and news.Lee Rigby was rendered unconscious by the impact of the car which he didn't see coming as it hit him from behind. That must be a relief to the family.I think knowing that a loved one suffered terribly before they died is even harder to take. The whole 'cowardly' thing by the prosecution lost me a bit though.Think they said they used a car and attacked him from behind.No shit Sherlock.If your intention is to kill someone then you are hardly going to invite them to a joust or get out your queensbury rule book are you.These law bods must live in cloud cuckoo land.They are hardcore successful jihadist terrorists that should be handed over to our allies and sent straight to Guantanamo Bay.That would save all the court costs and barristers pay to boot. These fuckers can then complain all they like about human rights as no one will be listening there.
I should imagine they are using the court time as a platform to air more of their sick views. In the knowledge it will be broadcasted/reported throughout the world.
Yet...when TV cameras start to invade the court rooms of the UK it will be this kind of case which will attract the most 'sponsorship' and pressure applied to ensure every inch of coverage is taken
My view is that the death sentence should be reinstated for these sorts of crimes. I've been sickened several times this year by scum murdering young girls (probably for sexual gratification) and this pair top the list of murderin Basterds. I don't care what their religious or political views are, you simply don't carry out a crime like this and expect an easy life afterwards. I really hope they end up with a sharpened toothbrush stuck in their neck...
They, like all jihadists, are brainwashed. Like the members of cults throughout the world and the ages. Like the Nazis. I find the cultist mindset fascinating. How does it work and how to people revert to normal (some do)? The behaviour of the murders was subhuman. But will they remain in this state forever? It's interesting to contrast this with say, the crimes of Ian Watkins. He is clearly sick, hasn't been brainwashed and his drives will probably never change. To what extent is evil innate? I'm currently reading a book on Hitler and the Nazi Cult of Celebrity (Michael Munn, if you're interested) which is engrossing. It is very interesting to see the mechanisms by which an entire country was brainwashed
They may be brainwashed jihadists , well I'm a brainwashed Brit , brainwashed by all this fucking soft attitude of leniency towards nutters like this , you've got two bags of skin , no use to anyone , I want them gone like you cant believe. There is no reason to believe that you cant have a civilised society that condones the death penalty. Can someone please explain to me the possible benefit of incarcerating these arseholes for life. Two months after locking them up who'll give them a thought other than the family of Lee Rigby , yes they may be imprisoned but have we seen justice done, when we can so easily forget about them because they become someone else's problem like HMP. There is too much having to be seen to be a wonderfully tolerant human rights, racially correct,immigration lenient ,free for all , good guy of the civilised world , ethos going on here. Israel wouldn't be pussying up to these tossers they'd be covered in lime by now.
So the front page of today's Times doesn't count then. They did it for their God, surely that's them airing their views.
[QUOTE. I sometimes wish there was a prison set aside for the most abhorrent offenders which made their lives a living 24/7 hell with just enough food and water to keep them alive. Sometimes "normal" prison doesn't seem enough[/QUOTE] I have thought this for years. What will happen in reality is that they will be well looked after and protected at great cost for decades. Undoubtedly somebody will have a go at one or both of them but they will still have some form of lifestyle. The other thing of course is that they will learn their rights inside out, make prolific amounts of complaints which will occupy investigating governors valuable time. They will also make allegations of racism, violence, discrimination, failure of duty of care etc against Prison Officers who will all be investigated and put under stress a a result. We really need prisons that simply lock them away and provide basic food, exercise and family contact. There is really no point in trying to provide them with sentence plans and learning paths. This kind of austere regime would be humane enough for them and they can spend the rest of their lives reflecting on their actions. No complaint procedure, no work, no education, no offending behaviour courses, no phone calls, no tv just newspapers books and radio.
