No questions being asked of what you said. A "Desmo" service is not simply a belt change though. £380 would be around the cost I would charge in truth, albeit excluding the VAT. At a minimum, the Desmo would include oil/filter, plugs (4 of them), air filter, timing belts, coolant, brake fluids... there's £300+, then there's the mechanical ops. It's not just valve clearances. A key op often overlooked is the strip down of the rear hub and regreasing of the rear wheel bearings. I'm not questioning what you paid, or that the job was any less thorough than a dealer would do, but the maths don't add up. An oil service and belt change for £380 is about the going rate, but that isn't an 18K Desmo service.
Enquired about a service & MOT for my BW320i 11,000 miles 3 years old. Local BMW dealer said I would need a service costing £550. When I asked what this entailed it was not a lot. I then contacted a local BMW specialist, who said you do not need that service, with the age and mileage on the car. They did the service, MOT and threw in a courtesy car while it was being done for £220. I wonder how many have been stung by this bullshit, I use these all the time now, H&C motors Maidstone.
THats the thing mate, its price gouging, nothing more. £80/hr ? if the mechanic, or more likely the "technician" is being paid between 10-15/hr where is the rest going? After fixed and variable costs are deducted it still leaves an obscene amount of money per hour that goes straight into the pocket of the owner. Whilst I have no objection to people making some coin, I do resent receiving, without so much as a by-your-leave, a dry shafting without so much as a reach around.
training. back i the day i was easy 4-5 weeks a year away on some course or another. not cheep IT and special tools. not cheep. showroom and workshop. again not cheep. being what appears to be expensive service is one thing, feeling like your not getting value for money with an obvious lack of attention to detail is another
From my experience in the commercial print industry comments like yours are usually followed a few years later by “aww it’s a shame they went bust, their customer service and quality of work was excellent” Market forces, generally the ones who said “your service is excellent, the quality of your print is top drawer, you always deliver on time but so and so has under cut you by 20%, can you match it?”. As it turns out “so and so, buys cheaper materials, has a tenth of the staff, employs monkeys and works out of an old scout hut but your still expected to match his price despite the fact you employ 60+ people, have to have a company pension scheme, holiday allowances (yes you have to pay your staff not to work nowadays), business rates national insurance, tax, up to date modern machinery that enables you to produce a quality product on time, then there’s the ISO 9001, 14001, FSC, PEFC, H&S accreditations, none of which you get from eBay! These are just a few costs off the top of my head that people assume the “owner just pockets” and no doubt a lot of these don’t necessarily relate to your local motorcycle dealer but many of the principles are the same I’m sure? Now I’m not knocking the small trader who can undercut main dealer rates, they often employ ex dealer techs so usually know their stuff, there is just a lot more outlay to running a big outfit than just the rates you pay your staff.
When I was working and put in a price/tender to build a snowsports facility I would, more often than not, get the following response from prospective buyers “Wow, that’s expensive” to which my response was “compared to what?” And they had no response as we were unique in what we supplied and did Added to which you could easily justify the expenditure by proving that we were creating a business that could be incredibly profitable, if operated professionally. And if they couldn’t see the opportunity then I’d just walk away.
No disrespect but I’ve heard some horror stories about bikes being returned from main dealers so what the hell are you paying £85ph for? What experience or job well done are you getting for that? Of course you will use the lesser more affordable garage that does the job correctly. You probably find they put in more of an effort because they rely on as much custom due to good work, a friend of mine a few years ago had an issue with DG over a bloody piss easy sump plug that hadn’t been put on tight enough and pissed oil all over his garage floor. I mean that’s rather easy and basic, what would happen with a desmo service?……….tad worrying, it beggars belief! Like I always say “do it yourself if you want it done right”………
Back agoodnumber of tears when we had a Lotus we were happy to use the main dealer who happened to be one of the oldest established Zlotus dealers in the uk. One time my wife took the car for service, low and behold there was a phone call to tell her that this that and many other things re the suspension and steering required replacement. A bit suspicious I told them to not replace any of the said defective parts on the car. mend of the day I collected it and took it straight to my well trusted mot man. This car was mot’d a few days before the service so he promptly put it on a lift and went though it with the finest comb in his armory. Low and behold not a single item that was said to be in need of replacement could be found to be in anywhere remotely in need of replacement. a bit of name and shaming and all out future work was directed to an independent. After five more years we sold the car never did it require the work. there’s a reason they are called stealers and not dealers.
I have to disagree lads. We are talking about servicing a bike here, not putting something into orbit. £80/hr is just not justifiable. If it's all that complicated and challenging why is the poor shmuck actually doing the job getting not much more than a living wage - we are all being fucked over, with a smile to boot! You don't have to lecture me on the running of a business. I do have experience of the private sector and a successful family business. I know all about it, fixed and variables, taxes, maintenance, insurance, training, holiday pay, ad infinitum. It still doesn't add up. Again we are talking about bikes here, it's not aerospace, or huge capital projects that require highly trained, expensive specialist knowledge. Specialist tools, diagnostics IT systems, on-going specialist training. Machinery that is over complicated, designs that confuse, OEM parts that cost as much per weight as Gold; its a stich up. Its all designed to produce a product that the average person cannot or will not dare tamper with. Couple that with restrictive regulations, company induced customer fear and an operating philosophy that sees as nothing more "revenue producing units" and its just plain wrong whether it be vehicles, tech, houses, food mixers or whatever! We are being taken, collectively, for a ride by these large mulit-nationals. Profiteering is profiteering, what ever shade it visits it's pain upon you...
Got one already. 06 plate KTM 990 with 50k on the clock. Rarely gives me issues but does like to eat batteries for some reason. I have to be honest and say that it is still my go-to ride as I can only do an hour or two in the saddle of the 848 before it makes me walk round akin to a crippled hobbit. Whereas I can hoon on the katoom all day happy and still perambulate to the pisser. Apologies, slipping into beat poet mode there! Whilst I am in confessional mode I am reet temped to put a deposit down on the new triumph Tigger 1200 and sell one or both of the others; choices choices.
I don’t really mind the annual service cost of my bike, yes I think it’s expensive but I bought an expensive bike so par for the course. The staff are all decent and way better than any car dealer I’ve used over the years so it’s just a cost to bear along with tax, insurance etc. Got to pay to play.
You’d have hoped that folk would buy these new bikes with eyes wide open as to the costs involved with ownership and budget accordingly. I really didn’t mind paying out for both services I had on my KTM, £180 for the first at 600 miles and £240 for the second 12 Months after that. It meant I kept the 2 year warranty, now I’m out of warranty I’ll do the the servicing myself.
But why? So because the bike costs more the servicing costs should match? Forget about the bike itself, the cost of it, and concentrate on the mechanics of the bike and the skill level that’s required to work on it, doesn’t warrant £85ph and the likes, they scaremonger people into thinking they can’t touch the bike, it’s far too complex to work on, leave it to the professionals! What a load of Fanny, no harder than any other bike to work on, absolute nonsense. The only thing that you could accept is parts being expensive, yeah fair enough, expensive bikes equals expensive parts but shouldn’t cost more to work on them. Some jobs take longer to carry out than other bikes but that doesn’t make it harder, time doesn’t equal difficulty, but when you’re paying £85ph it sure as hell pulls your pants down and fiddles with your prostate gland in a very uncomfortable manner, not that I’m saying it’s comfortable at other times but whatever tickles your fancy I suppose. fact is, it’s daylight robbery! It cannot be justified at all.
some jobs are more profitable than others. it's why we have the fast fit places. low risk high return. i would be more interested in how many hours are getting charged out per job than than the £80 odd £ph. the quality of the work, which is where i suspect the gripes of the OP lie, along with the honesty around any recommendations they are making for further repairs. the hours dont start when the vehicle/bike hits the ramp. it starts when the phone is answered and doesn't stop until the paperwork is done and the keys are handed over. some high end places call it "the ceremony of the keys" workshops are v,expensive to equip and run. considerably more than any other trade you will invite through your door where the only big overhead is the white van parked up outside.
My company charge me out at around £800 per day (I don’t get paid that btw) we are a niche industry, we have to run company vehicles, a warehouse with around £2M worth of stock (spares) our customers say we are expensive. I ask those customers how much it would cost their business if their machines failed and they lost the load? “Ooh, that doesn’t bear thinking about” I know one customer would lose around £25M PER HOUR! When I say we are cheaper than being sued for loss of load they tend to go a little quiet
Just to put some balance to this thread. The employer as from April 2022 has to pay 15% NI for all employees, they have to provide 4 weeks annual leave, they have to buy all the parts from Ducati which in most cases are higher priced than could be generally sourced. They have to buy specialized issued tools from Ducati, they have to adhere to Ducati's corporate image both in the showroom and service department. They have to heat/ possibly air condition the premise. They have to pay business rates on the commercial property , they have to pay bank charges including a percentage of monies taken and loans to run the business. They have to carry on paying staff during the winter period with much reduced income and finally, the total invoice includes 20% VAT on parts and labour.
Still doesn’t warrant £85ph, no matter how much you butter it up. specialised tools are one off payments, initial outlay to get the shop up and running. Parts is a cost that is ultimately covered by the customer and they will have stock rotation that works well so can’t see how that’s a valid argument, a lot of the time they don’t have stock and wait for it to come in.
