The 'reflections' made here by people posting, are genuinely moving and totally appropriate to ensure people's minds are prompted about such atrocities. Maintaining focus on what 'hopefully' minority levels of humanity (inhumanity!!), can perpetuate and do to fellow humans, is truly important. All too frequently I hear about society's attempts at re-writing history, some of whom have been successful, due to their prevailing constitutional structures or control of their populations, an approach all too often being advocated by our own government(s) when in power to either a greater or lesser extent. At a far lower level than the experiences set-out by those directly or indirectly affected by the holocaust, not in any way, shape or form intended to divert attention from what those posting have said, my limited personal experience of what the Germans did to the Jewish people, have certainly left a mark on my memory. As a 'forces-kid' I lived in Germany from the age of 11-16 and my exposure to places like Bergen Belsen and Dachau both left an indelible mark. To see mounds with markers on them stating 15,000 buried here, 25,000 buried there, extensively arranged throughout huge areas of land, was truly shocking. To also stand opposite the spot in Dachau, where people were lined up and shot indiscriminately, with a channel dug to allow the blood spilled to flow away from the spot, took my breath away. Just two personal examples of reasons why these tragic, awful, completely avoidable events in history simply must be acknowledged and retained on a continuum of humanitarian awareness, at least, as I see it. Something I would doubt others could disagree with, unless that is, they are supporters of unwarranted destruction of sections of our society(ies)! And yes I do appreciate that today, throughout our world, societies continue to wreak untold havoc, death and destruction on others, in their name of doing right. Israel, Yemen, Congo, India, Syria, Afghanistan, USA (Guns and the absolutely ludicrous so called "Right to bear arms" - WTF), & of course Ukraine, to name just a few......... God, what a world we try to live in and we are amongst some of the luckier ones being here in the UK, albeit at times I know we all often think otherwise!
Well said Tony, and our generation in the UK are certainly the luckier ones although few seem to appreciate that they are.No forced conscription into the armed forces to put one’s life on the line in Korea for example for a measly £1.40 per week.One thing for sure is that many of us need to stop and consider these things.
It’s important to reflect. And fairly recent in history terms. It gets watered down now as every time someone or govt does something not agreeable they are accused of being nazis and like Hitler. Imho this will do more to harm and undo the reminders of what man is truly capable of than anything else in current society. We still have concentration camps and the like in this world. We still have slaves based on their religion. We still have societies divided by race, colour, religion.
Britain was the first to use concentration camps. They never teach you that in school or certainly didn’t in my day. Visiting Anne Frank’s house in Amsterdam is extremely humbling. To imagine what people went through to try and hide their religion and avoid capture and still did not succeed is truly mind blowing.
Unfortunately a lot of the atrocities perpetrated by the British has been Whitewashed out of any education. As far as I’m aware the negatives of British history isn’t taught, at least not that my kids who’ve not so long ago left school have mentioned. The US and The Holocaust is worth a watch.
Cue a great example of my point, so I’ll bite, so you are comparing the two? Britain gassed people? Worked them til they died? Rounded up every single person of a religious belief and treated them as slaves and experimental fodder? Abused them? Took pleasure and fun in torturing them? On a scale in the millions? Or just more anti British rhetoric. Btw we also carpet bombed civilians. We rounded up certain tribes and imprisoned them in Africa during he boar war. We did lots of things. We sent millions of young men to their death in wars. Hell, `Blair signed the death warranty of hundreds of thousand of Iraqis (although I doubt that’s one you’d bring up). But we didn’t gas and murder millions while incarcerated in modern history.
Are you kidding me? Slavery?! Let’s leave this to what it is: a reminder to reflect on those poor people who did nothing but want to live their lives and suffered greatly and lost lives in their millions.
We didn’t murder millions no, but we were the first to use concentration camps of that there is no doubt and thousands died of neglect. Is it any better that we didn’t use extermination camps as a way to kill people rather than wilful neglect. We also didn’t help in any meaningful way during the Irish famine again wilful neglect. Iranian famine wilful neglect. Indian famine……. There’s plenty enough blood on Britains hands in foreign wars and as peacetime policy. The fact the Nazi’s killed millions by gas, shooting, beatings, hanging and neglect can’t excuse our past behaviour. The slave trade killed hundreds of thousands, the time between these acts and now doesn’t diminish that which we have done.
I will say this….we seem to be going off thread..but if you think the British were bad in Empire days, they were angels compared to the Belgians in Africa, the Ottoman Empire, and don’t forget Egypt allegedly had a few slaves a few thousand years ago. I really do not understand why in Britain there is a voice to make us feel so sorry for things that happened long ago and well outside our control. Do the Italians say sorry for the Romans having slaves? Do the Greeks? Do the Turks? Said my bit, have a good weekend all.
My point was modern teaching does include the evils of the empire. Won’t be commenting any more, it’s off thread.
Interesting reading all of the above opinions/posts, in my experience there are as many differing points of view as there are stars in the sky, everyone interprets what is right or wrong in a different manner. Last night i watch Schindlers List for the first time, i remember when it was released in 1993 and the attention it drew. It was an eye opener and a reminder of the atrocities and sheer cruelness human beings are capable of towards another living being. It was difficult watching even at my age, i mentioned to my wife this morning how every teenager should watch it, in order to understand what life can throw at you if born in another era. Having studied 20th Century (mainly the two wars) history at school and university in the late 1980's i have been all too aware from a young age the harsh reality of the holocaust (not that one has to attend university to be aware). But it still amazes me when i read or see pictures of the sheer scale of cruelty inflicted on 6 million people purely because of their faith by a delusional man, trust me he was delusional. The choregraphed rallies, Nazi uniforms, insignia, it was all carefully constructed (and copied from Mussolini) to the last detail. The rallies weren't just put together at the last minute, they took months of planning in order to seduce the young and disillusioned with one of many aims, to blame the most successful in their community for their own failings, as well as paying reparations for the First World War. The point of the above is that, he genuinely believed the Jewish race to be bad and the only way to move forward was to exterminate them, as well as the sick, old, infirm, gay, black, Asian. Some Indian leaders during the war were actually in contact with him on how to rid their country of the unwanted and offered to help him.........I kid you not. I for one have had a chat about the holocaust with my 11 year old son and explained that it should never happen again, but as esteemed forum members have pointed out above, no country is white than white when it comes to matters of genocide or unjust treatment treatment of indigenous people for financial gain. The English landed in India in 1608, leaving in 1947, during which time they stripped the country of every valuable asset. William Dalrymple (historian) mentions' in he's many writings how they left the Indian subcontinent on its knees, a country raped and pillaged by the East India Company. The holocaust will never be forgotten in my household, we will be lighting a candle for the lives so cruelly taken.
At the risk of being pedantic, there was a big difference between concentration camps and death camps. The former were dreadful places where inmates were treated appallingly, beaten, starved and worked to death, but survival was possible. However, the latter were explicitly constructed to carry out industrialised extermination and most people who entered were gassed within hours of arrival. The two terms are often used interchangeably, and so while it is true that the Brits invented/pioneered the use of concentration camps in the Boer War, and they undoubtedly resulted in the death and mistreatment of thousands of civilians, they were not specifically designed to inflict genocide.
The start of the Nazi regime and their blaming of people of foreign descent is exactly the same rhetoric used by the likes of Farage and his fellow xenophobes, which is precisely why it relevant to point the fingers at those in this country think its acceptable to talk and think that way. If Germans had made that talk unacceptable in the 1930s then Hitler would never have rose to the power he did and to ultimately commit the atrocities he did. His initial plan was to send them back to where they came from once they were in concentration camps but when the scale of the numbers became known they revised the plan to the Final Solution. Reinhard Heydrich was a big player in the initial plan and its only with hindsight that it's possible to surmise that those Czechs who assassinated him could never have known what a service they did for the whole World even though the Nazis killed them too.
Bumping the thread made me re read this about my brother in laws dad and aunties journey. https://www.viasarfatti25.unibocconi.eu/notizia.php?idArt=21948
