A grim picture Mel, for which I do have some sympathy. The teaching profession has to take some responsibility for the conditions in schools. Teachers should be able to teach, disruptive pupils should be disciplined and removed if they refuse to cooperate. There should be a zero tolerance policy towards disruptive behaviour and emphasis placed upon the responsibilities of pupils rather than their rights; that should extend to parents also.
That would be in an ideal world John Schools have zero tolerance apparently unfortunately it doesn't happen and I say from personal experience A disruptive child or an aggressive child gets more than a few chances with a couple of days out of school and then taken back in. These days the harshest sentence is a let's sit the bully and victim down to have a little chat I would not be a teacher for love or money in this day and age because not only do you have disruptive pupils they also have the families to contend with
and the compo-culture "lawyers" who tend to be arm in arm with such low life, ready to defend their little precious's human rights. wouldn't be a teacher, either - too much hassle, too little support.
Exactly. Which is why teachers need to get their sh*t together and start being teaching professionals, and the teaching unions start looking solely after the interests of the teachers rather than trying to be politically motivated social workers. The endless oportunities for 'second chances' for poor performance, on both sides, does no one any favours.
My daughter is a Primary school teacher under the current regime. She works as hard as anyone I know, in school at 7:30 and often leaving 12 hours later. There are endless amounts of required paperwork in terms of planning, assessment, observation, etc. Of course, as far as many parents think, she arrives 10 minutes before the kids in the morning, and goes home at about half past three. Half her holidays are spent working too. Like every role, there are indeed good and bad teachers, but to brand them all as sickie throwing part timers is clearly ignorant.
I would not want to be a teacher. As johnv says, rights are considered above responsibilities these days, across all elements of society. Are some teachers lazy? Probably. Are most teachers conscientious and hard working? Probably. Are they hampered by legislation and excessive admin? Almost certainly. Could we apply the above statements to many other professions? Yes.
The teachers would love to be able take control . They can't . this comes from up above Its scary what one disruptive child can do to a whole class and frustrating. Who's job is it to install good manners , discipline and the likes in a child? Who has the first few years to imprint on a child? whos job is it? funnily enough I see it that the job is that of the parent the roll model. The parents of these unruley kids don't see that !!! they see it as a teachers role. er no . teachers teach and build on a foundation presented to them at age 4. Inadequate parenting is the No 1 blame. " Why isn't my son being disciplined and taught at school?" I d love to say " because you don't either know what your doing or can't be arsed. when you hear what goes on at home with such kids everything that has been taught is undone by parent in 5 mins. Yes we where better behaived yes we got the threat of the cane . But also our parents were tougher on us. The nanny state once again has stamped on discipline . At home and school. At school staff are afraid to say anything. If they do Mr and Mrs unruley kids parents are the first up school threatening . your treating our ..... Unfairly your just a teacher.. The poor staff gets investigated and dumped on garden leave . Then parent complains because they can't go to work as child is at home! Staff are up against the wall in fear of their job. Parents have to watch their step or they are in trouble. Unruely kids know this !!! You hit me or shout at me I'm calling " Childline" and reporting you. . The power is now given to the child . Thats the issue ! Discipline works . But someone up high took it away .
Teaching - firstly, it's a shit job and I wouldn't want to do it. BUT it has become a shit job precisely because of what a lot of teachers and their political allies have allowed to happen to the education system. ie - no discipline, no concentrating on learning the basics first, and "one size fits all" teaching methods. As for OFSTED - having seen them in action all I can say is what a bunch of interfereing, self-important, irrelevant busy-bodies ! OFSTED is just a self-perpetuating beurocracy... Anyone who takes a look at the standard of English laguage or maths skills displayed by pretty much everyone under the age of 30 will see that the UK's education system has failed, badly...
I think if teachers had access to some of the techniques that Andyb has available to him, for his *cough*pupils*cough*, we might hear different stories about the state of schools these days. :wink:
I love reading comments from people of both sides of the argument probably with no experience of a teaching situation since they were at school but seemingly having all the answers. A good/great teacher is worth their weight in gold, a shite teacher can destroy a child for life. Sadly both are entitled to the same rights and earn the same rewards. Its difficult to reward a good teacher and almost impossible to get rid of a shite one thanks to the Union.
So let's say a very disruptive child is permanently excluded from his school by the head, confirmed by the governors. What happens next? The Local Education Authority still has a legal obligation to provide education to that (and every) child. So the child has to be sent to a place in another school, and that school cannot refuse to accept him if they have vacancies in that year group. And the child probably goes on being as disruptive as ever, but now with a new set of teachers and assistants. Exclusion does not really solve anything, it just kicks the can down the road.
I have also seen OFSTED in action, in various capacities, and I agree with you entirely. OFSTED are very keen to expose mercilessly the shortcomings of the school and staff they are inspecting, but do not want their own very great shortcomings to be exposed.
In the NE of Scotland all of the little villages along the northern coast have school children excluded from their own village schools being transported by taxi to the school in the next village. The total bill for school run taxis run empty, where no one turned up, in the whole of Scotland was over £1 million a few years ago.
i was trying not to be thick and work out what desciline was............i presume you meant discipline :wink:
