But smokers in hospital do not throw up all over which requires disinfection, do not get aggressive or abusive and do not get sick suddenly every weekend over and over. They just die this one time. Sounds a bit like USA there.
Good thread. It's quite amusing to see the displays of breathtaking naivety, total ignorance, and outright fascism breaking cover here. Carry on, chaps.
It's a massively complicated question and if it weren't, there are enough bright people around who would have solved it. So, at the risk of sounding naïve, stupid or both: I see the country as a massive business. If you make a profit, it generates funds to pay down debt. If you make a loss, you increase debt. The best thing you can do is to get full employment, as this (a) saves having to hand out cash in benefits and (b) allows you to tax the income of those working. If you don't want people on the government payroll, you have to stimulate private business. The best way to do that would be for the government to set up a national bank with the sole remit of lending to small and medium businesses at super-attractive rates, seeing as the gov't can borrow so cheaply. They have already pointed out that although they are printing and increasing the money supply, banks don't lend that cash to business. Then you foster start-ups and enterprise, by giving them long tax-breaks (remember, you are already taxing salaries), and doing everything you can to help them with free management consultation, for example. Some will go to the wall, some will thrive and be successful. You set out a really ambitious vision for education, where you say that you want the kids of the UK to be amongst the top 5 best educated in the world and you invest behind that vision. Not about numbers of people with bog-paper degrees - real education, even if it means elitism. For the less academically gifted, you look at setting up an apprenticeship programme comparable to that of the Swiss (which has been mentioned by name on TV of late), so that you get really qualified and respected tradesmen in all skill areas - no more cowboys. You look at all the industries which would seem to be net exporters and you give those even more incentive to succeed. The German economy works because it exports more than it imports. see: Exporting and making money Just to help things along, you introduce a fat tax: Give me a double helping of Fat Tax - The Glidd of Glood Blog - which would help the NHS. Finally, you stop worrying about repaying the debt or dealing immediately with the budget deficit. That only shrinks the economy and throws people out of work. It has to be a long term solution; there is no quick fix. I don't buy "austerity" - look what it's doing to Spain, Greece etc: wrecking their economies, destabilising the Euro which is having a knock on effect in the UK and the whole of Europe. Read El Pais if you want to know what it feels like to live in a country with over a quarter of the working population reduced to twiddling their thumbs - 40 or 50% for young people - a wasted generation. The problems facing this country after the 2nd World War were far greater than what we have now. And those problems were largely dealt with (even if we are still feeling the aftershocks 70 years on). But it takes VISION - something the current crop of politicians don't have.
Much of the discussion has been about how to get the economy going again and a return to growth but the question was about the deficit, the difference between government spending and income (from taxation, borrowing and printing money). Sure if we do get back to growth the goverment can increase its total tax take through more people being in work, but the deficit is in the region of 10% of GDP so it is unlikely that growth is going to solve the deficit problem any time soon. Even if we stop worrying about paying off the debt the interest payments will take an ever larger slice of the cake leaving less and less to spend on worthwhile projects (or waste on hopeless projects). So if we are unable to borrow more due to the spiraling cost of borrowing and printing more money (which hasn't worked in the past) risks inflation we are left with taxation and spending. Are we willing to pay more tax, and if we do will the government spend it wisely, or do we want to cut government spending. Bear in mind Welfare and Health are the two biggest costs to government. FWIW I would cut benefit to the point that no one on benefit should receive more than the average income and we need to recognise that the NHS and the provision of Wefare is run for the benefit of their staff and not it's patients / customers, but again I just do not see the oportunity to cut £10-15 billion per month. It is like being in a maze with no exit, instictively I see less state intervention and more self reliance as a major part of the solution but I just think the current economic and political paradigm has run its course, the system demands growth that has reached its natural limits and all we are doing is kicking the can down the road.
Well I care but it's gonna take more than you and I to bring this country back to feeling like its actually worth anything again
That's a pretty weird sentiment from someone who lives in a democracy. Sure there's nothing you can do single-handedly to change the status quo, but there are things you could get going if you really wanted to. You could start by giving your MP a hard time - he's supposed to represent you. So what is he doing about it? Does he know what his party's policy is, since he's working for them? Go and meet him - he's supposed to be a real person. Then those that do decide these things are continually giving public speeches. Find out where they are and go and heckle and demand some answers. There are probably Facebook pressure groups or similar. Organise a protest - a flashmob or something. You could even organise it on here: get all the Ducati forum members involved and rope in all motorcyclists : "Bikers against austerity" or whatever you want to call it. So no, you can't just muscle up to Westminster and change things. But you can use your right to representation, free speech, demonstration and a load of other things to demand change or propose new ideas. Or you can just sit back and wait for someone else to do it, or moan about it.
I see a more educated workforce and a nurturing of creativity and business sense. Les state intervention - maybe. Boot out all the H&S crap for a start, but don't end up like the USA where the most capable get rich and the less able live in drug-dependant obese misery. The machines are creating the need for growth. They are doing the jobs we used to do. The machines are not providing limitless leisure for the masses, except as unemployment. People should have thought about whether limitless free time would make them happy in any case. It doesn't, at least without money it doesn't. You want a new political paradigm? It's probably either going to be (a) we're all in this together, tax the rich and distribute wealth evenly - a sort of Scandinavian social democratic thing or (b) every man for himself and it doesn't matter who you crush as you head for the exit. "Less intervention" gives me the impression that you'd prefer a scenario (b) like US Republicans. This scenario if often favoured by those near the top of the pile - they have more to lose than gain from scenario (a).
Would rather spend my hard earned free time riding my bike rather than chasing after some pompous mp who knows full well what's up with the country without me telling him / her
I'd stop paying contributions to the EU. Then, stop all benefits for all people who have been unemployed for more than 5 years. If they get a job, they can have top-up payments to help, decreasing every year. Then I'd reward public sector managers who don't spend their budget, rather than punish them by cutting their budgets next year if they don't use them. Next, I'd look at the real cost of public transport. TFL spent £5,322,000,000 last year, of which £3,339,000,000 was from the gvt. Our money. That's a subsidy of £500 per person. For my family, we pay £2,000 for a 'service' we don't use.
I dont get the argument about losing all the trade with Europe if we leave the EC. Firstly, as far as I am aware we import more from Europe than we export but even if it is the other way around, being outside Europe does not mean you cannot buy and sell to anyone anywhere. I have an import/export business and deal with countries in Europe, Asia, Africa and the Americas. Australasia is the only continent we dont trade with . Some countries have import/export duties, some dont. If someone in Germany wants a Triumph, Range Rover, Jaguar for example he is still gonna get it, just like if anyone here wants a BMW. Does anyone think BMW are going to say, sorry mate, you cant have one of our lovely products as you are not in the EU any more? Other stuff, cut the size of the state. My trouble works for the NHS, it is disgusting some of the money wasting that goes on. Would not happen in a private company. The welfare state was created to help those in need not to be a lifestyle choice, needs to get back to being that again. Lastly reduce income tax to a flat 15% on all earnings over say £10000 and then increase indirect taxes like vat on everything except essential goods. If you want a 4 foot wide plasma screen or a Bently or even a Ducati you can pay a bit more but you wont be worse off as your tax will be lower. That is probably all very simplistic but why make things complicated?
You are right we could still trade with EU just that UK goods would be instantly more expensive due to import duty. Less people could afford it. Sorry but 20% import duty on car is huge jump (there is import duty on items coming from outside eu and no way around it). As response uk would do the same and put 20% on all items from eu. People that could barely afford x could not afford it no more. 20% is an example as can not remember exact numbers. Another side effect Triumph, to stay competitive, would move production to EU cutting jobs in UK. Mainly as EU market is bigger. Even if they left factory here it would be only for UK market and assembly as all parts would be made in EU. It is not as easy as it sounds.
Just declare that UK PLC is a Football club and offer to pay 2p/£ to creditors ..... then re-join the EU at a lower level with a guaranteed place back at the top level within 3 years :wink:
That isn't right Luca, I import from turkey and Egypt with no duty and from India, china, Pakistan with duty varying from 3 to 12 percent. Same goes for exports, different rates for different products and different countries and I doubt that any Eu countries would impose duty on our goods or us on theirs.
Dukesox you got me thinking then is UK under different, better rules already? My sister imports goods from Pakistan, India, Egypt and few others. Mainly building materials. All of those countries have import duties?!
Lucaz, there's very little chance the EU would have the balls to put import duties on goods from this country. If they put 20% on our exports, we would put 40% on our imports. Think how that would affect imports from France, Germany, Italy, even Spain. There's not a chance it would happen.
The uk cant compete with that. We banned child labour many moons ago. And yes, I have lived in china and India.......................
