Another way to reduce the deficit is when an overseas 'stayer' (much nicer than immigrant or asylum seeker, don't you think?) brings his six wives (which he perfectly entitled to under his own country's laws) into the UK, only he and one wife gets benefit, not all six of his wives as well. At the current rate when he becomes due for the State Pension, he will get it six times as a married couple. Anyway....as far as I am concerned, the Euro is an idea that was doomed to fail....and I hope it does completely fail, then the UK will have to start bl**dy working at proper industries again and not fake ones like 'third party call centres' who just pass messages on or phone me to try and persuade me to lodge fictitious insurance claims. AL.
Monkey see monkey do is when you do not train them and they still learn. It is not luck of understanding of projects as been there done that. When I was sent to do basic training to all and then few people full training I was also always reminded it is not to be full training or they will not want to pay for support. However I did that job in UK mostly and only filled in abroad if they were short of people. Fact is you think you have so much knowledge you are irreplaceable and it could have not gone any other way. As said you also had to been trained in what you do, you must have so that means there are others that can be. It has to be possible or when you retire entire industry that relies on your job will collapse. As tempting as it is the poor suffer in that system. We could make it compulsory to have for example health books with NHS id. They are used to prove you can use NHS and for prescriptions. Works well in Poland, if you have accident they will treat you first ask questions later or give you bill later. The workforce bit is changing amongst those at work. When I first came to UK I seen English workers (not all need to add) showing up late day in day out saying ah tube. Living on lunch brake 10 min early, coming back 20 min late as they have to travel to their sandwich shop. Cigarette brakes minimum 1 per hour obviously coupled with coffee. Not to mention if there was any kind of hard-ish work Toys out. Now they come on time, do work and only take extra 10 min lunch brake. Thing is young one's doing first job do not last more then 1.5 month. In their mind they worked "hard" and did not get paid much over minimum wage. They do not get fact you need to start somewhere.
Thank you for you succint round-up. I also thank you for educating me, I wasn't aware that BP seconded petrol pump attendants to mainland europe on relief duties.
no Lucaz, it's not that straightforward. I work with people from all over the world. The difference in cultures is astonishing. One bunch of people in one location will take responsibility and will work as equals while others won't. One buch will admit to balls ups while others won't. This is one reason why I can't believe that all emerging markets will truly succeed.
It is Cranker who started this all monkey business. From what he wrote I got if he does not show up to do the project people in X country can only learn by copying (monkey business), it is impossible to train them. Yes different cultures warrant different approach but it does not exclude ability to teach them, just approach needs to be tailored. However this is not the argument I have with Cranker. I know it is cheaper to send contractor to X country to advise on project and train local population to later work there. However fact is if you do it that way you do take someone's job, you do it not local. Again nothing wrong with that just do not complain later on if some foreigners come to your county and do job's here. You did it there we do it here. You want that to stop lead by example stop doing jobs in foreign countries first. That last fact has nothing to do with economics, economy or even how business operate. It is the basic (can not believe second reference to bible in this thread!!!) do not do to others what you do not want to be done to you.
Are you thick on purpose? Or are you genetically deposed to be stupid? A project HAS to have experienced, knowledgable, hard working, committed, resourceful people. Specialists come from all sorts of countries, and tend to know one another or know the same people within the industry. Do you think all the pople who built the olympic facilites where local? No, you dick, it was a mix. It called availability of resources. So who's job are the expats taking? No ones you muppet. THERE IS NO ONE IN A LOT PLACES WHO CAN FILL SPECIFIC ROLES. Going by your plan, we take someone who may have the correct criteria to fulfill the role , train them (monkey see monkey do NVQ ok for you?) and then let them loose. FFS, please tell me the project management course you went on was for Pizza express, managing a desicion making process flow of toppings addition. If this is what your time at college/uni is doing for your thought and problem solving skills for you I would seriously consider anther course. Next time I need a process control delta V project manager I shall go get someone local and train him up. Meanwhile, for the next five years the rest of the project personnel shall sit around on their expensively payed arses (for five years - result payed for sitting around) whilst he/she trains and eventually wait to see if the person I have picked to train actually comes up to scratch. Bravo, you saved a fortune for everyone............. Some education for you - monkey see, monkey do: This means you show someone a very simple task and they then reapeat it. They may not know why the are repeating it, just that they have to. A simple task , with no thought required. Maybe that is something you can aspire too..................
So what do you do while trying to find he 'right' people, get them trained and experienced enough to fulfil within the countries own workforce? And I dont think you can compare the immigration going to far flung places with professional skills (or indeed thise skilled coming tomUK) to those coming here to clean cars. And what is being described is not the cost of immigration taking jobs (the typical longterm unemployed lout is incapable, unable or not financially compensated enough to stop scrounging) its those who come and contribute nothing but take what they can. How can the eastern europeans who operate a local car cleaning place make enough to survive? £5 a clean, about 8 of them working a renting the forecourt...reckon NI, tax and all the appropriate HS controls are in place?! Contribute nothing, get nothing. The answer to the question is simple but not very palatable; if you dont work you get feck all. Unemployemt = voluntary or social work until able to find suitable employ. Unless you are so disabled you cant lick a stamp, you get nothing either. Maintain the NHS better than it is now, as well as police and army and double the number of personnel while reducing quango red tape and controls.
It seems Lucazade is basically a troll. He is hard of thinking, and just wants to spoil what is otherwise an interesting thread by posting a lot of incoherent nonsense. Better to ignore him - trying to explain anything sensibly only encourages him.
So true right there with you on that one ! Just like my traction thread why did he even respond when he's never owed a bike with traction but then all of a sudden an expert !!
Hey, let's not start insulting people. I like being challenged and seeing different views. It's not the Daily Telegraph comments section here!
Cranker sorry but come on for real name calling? Hands down, jaw floor. To re-cap and for my part I hope put it to bed: You did not like the fact I did not agree with you re child labour. Force labour/profiteering hell no. Working in decent conditions for decent wage is all together another matter. Not to mention fact that in many countries said child has to work to eat. Is it wrong yes, should it change probably yes should we ban children from working, that is for parents to decide not you here in UK. You only look from one point of view where you assume here in western Europe you know the best. Who are you to say your approach is the best for children in X country in Y situation? Who made you the all knowing? In many "1st world" countries teenagers do summer jobs or even work a day a week (or something) all year and it seems to be working out for them with no side effects. Then we some how jumped on to immigrants being partially responsible for current mess. Well sorry but how did you come to this conclusion? I do not know one immigrant that came here to go on benefits, interestingly in big part because of restrictions put on people coming from new EU countries here. As said we come, we work, we pay our taxes (ie contribute to public services) and spend some or all our money here. That is exactly what average British joe does so why are you targeting a selected group? Especially that whether you like it or not you did/do the same (no matter what underlying reasons there are). Even if you wanted to go on benefits it would be contribution based so limited time. Regarding Olympic stadium building and it being a mix of people. Yes it was and many of them came on contract so did not contribute much positively towards economy. They come do the job, accommodation paid, food most likely as well then on weekend or at month end they bugger off. However I guess that is not the problem? With what is it now 8 million unemployed you want to tell me they could not find what they want here? They were at the end building a stadium's not advanced scientific complex. I think we need to agree to disagree. If you believe immigrants/immigration is a problem fine just then stop doing it yourself. Yes Pete I am a troll then. I am swearing at others, attacking everybody's ideas to keep the momentum, sounds like all I did here .... Hang on my conversation was only with Cranker here with a drop from Jerry. There was no name calling until recently either. Conversation revolves around the same subject (that is somewhat related to the topic) that in my view Cranker is bluntly ignoring, subject he mentioned first I might add. Fact of the matter is simple if you believe immigration is part of the problem do not try and excuse yourself as to why it is ok for you to work in someone else's country. Not to mention narcissistic attitude, people with my skills are one in 10 million, WTF really?! To the man below. I was under impression you clicked do not like this guy button on me? Please just shut up about me I started ignoring you why cant you just do the same. I am not interested in opinion of a man who believes, amongst many things, that if any immigrant wants to come here he should learn English because you (fujack) are in UK and do not need to learn their language. Then you also admit that if you go abroad you expect them to know English as well as you will not learn their language as you do not need to. One rule for "King" another for "peasants" right?
OK, Lucasz, I'm going to do you a favour and spell it out for you clearly. I shall say this only once! You are perfectly entitled to hold and express views, including unpopular views, and disagree with others just like anyone else. But if you want anyone to take you seriously, try the following: 1. Read peoples' posts carefully before you consider responding to them. 2. Think through what points you want to make. 3. Double-check each sentence after writing it, and if it does not make sense amend it. 4. Be appreciative of people who try to help you by correcting your misunderstandings and providing you with information; they are not your enemies. 5. If you have nothing to say, hold your peace. 6. Before you click the "Post Reply" button, think again how your message will cause readers to perceive you; do you really want everyone to think you're an illiterate idiot gabbling incoherent nonsense? Wouldn't you prefer us all to think you're sensible and a great guy? Up to you now.
Introduce a Euro wide 20% tax rate on all income and no exceptions. That way the wealthy would not be able to wriggle out of their fair share and nor would the big multinational companies who pay little tax when compared to their profits.
Good idea but unless the Bahamas & Caymen Islands are in Europe, then tax will still be 'evaded' .... The most farcical tax law in UK right now is IR35 (basically stops you working directly for one client unless you work for an organisation of > 4 people) Mr Browns cack-handed attempt to stop brickies/plasterers/cabbies working cash in hand only served to force 100,000's of previously 'self employed' professionals to take salaried positions within large organisations (or umbrella agencies) who then creamed off the 20% that used to go to the tax man to pay the salaries of the middle management/additional admin staff who were only taken on to 'manage' people who had proven previously that they could manage themselves quite happily thank you very much. I have a relative working at HMRC who confirmed that IR35 virtually wiped out tax revenues from this source ....... yet is unenforceable!
Except most of these wouldnt have paid much tax in the first place and certainly hardly any NI. One of the few things he did right imo
