The people get the governments they deserve. As I said previously, its the whole world that is turning to the right. Wonder where that will lead us?..........
Now that the people of Europe have spoken and nearly all the results for the European Parliamentary election are in, we can see roughly where the parties and groups stand. Totals out of 751 seats: EPP (Centre Right) = 208 Socialist (Centre Left) = 186 Liberal (Centre) = 117 Green (incl. regionalists) = 46 Conservative (Centre Right) = 45 Left (Far Left) = 42 EFD (Far Right) = 38* and "Others" (i.e. not in groups) = 117. * 38 greatly understates the Far Right numbers since many of the "Others" are akin to Far Right; thus true Far Right numbers about 100, placing them fourth. The Centre Right will be pretty pleased with this outcome, having fended off a challenge from the Centre Left (their main competition). Just to be clear, I personally support the Centre Left which made some gains but not enough this time.
Yes, it's so annoying when voters vote the wrong way for the wrong reasons, isn't it! It is inherent in the concept of democracy that voters can choose which way to vote based on ignorance, fear, greed, racial prejudice, lies, or indeed for any reason at all good or bad. All politicians, including the very best, have to take this into account - and then shoulder the blame for doing so. It's still preferable to the alternatives though.
When the Social Democratic Party (SPD) was formed in the 1980s, it won six MP seats at the following general election. If the UKIP can match that in 2015, it will be doing very well. Of course the SDP had won some by-elections (which the UKIP has so far failed to do) and was soon wiped out after a few years. Still David Owen, as the SDP leader, got a peerage out of it; roll on Lord Farage. If after an election no one party has an overall majority, do you not think that two parties which can form a majority between them should agree a coalition? What is the alternative? And if two parties which made incompatible manifesto promises (as they always are, of course) agree a coalition, do not some of the promises have to be dropped? Again, what is the alternative?
I am OK with voting but not getting the result I want. That's democracy. I am not OK with being deprived of the right to vote permanently. That's tyranny.
No one is suggesting that your are deprived of the right to vote in your own country. What we voted for in 1975 was to joint the Common Market, a trading block, and not a United States of Europe (although the intent may have been tucked away in some treaty or other). All I want is an opportunity to vote on an In / Out referendum for the UK in Europe. The idea that Cast Iron Dave will be able to renegotiate any meaningful concessions is ludicrous and Red Ed doesn't want to give us a choice, that leaves me no choice in who I vote for. The increase in the Eurosceptic vote was across the whole of Europe with the exception of Croatia and another recently joined nation; the tide is turning.
No... The UK joined the EFTA in the late 50s with the other western European non-EEC nations but this was just not successful. When we joined the EEC in 1973, we agreed in treaty to mutual co-operation on everything from environment to trade. The UK actually negotiated into the treaty that the EEC would have its own independent financial budgets rather than be funded directly from the member states as before, this was so that the French and German control was at least put at arms length; you could actually say that the UK was the driver towards the EU being the independent beast it is today! Also, that treaty was the fore-runner to us creating a directly elected EU Parliament, again a UK driven idea aimed at de-powering the French and German hold on the EEC.
I've just seen this this thread and I am bloody sick of the Etonian verse workers bias of politics,its a new form of racialism without laws to cover it.Send your kids to a public school at a huge cost even though through general taxation,you've paid for their education means that that your little darlings that go to normal school are being subsidized by those that decide otherwise.There seems to be increasingly more parties that enjoys dividing the nation whether north/south or by perceived rich/poor or by Europe/or not which again are designed to obtain a form of party gain and reward for all involved but which is frankly a disgrace.I also believe that the other parties both sides of the border and in all senses are doing the same. Sick of politics,yes,do they need to address this,yes,do we need to have the information to address and qualify our decision,yes,is that going to happen.I will let you to decide that.
Interesting bit of history shadow but it doesn't alter my conclusion and I still want an In/Out referendum.
I personally find all the current statements by Labour, the Tories and the lib dems rather out of touch regarding the UKIP success. They all sit there failing to answer questions directly, manoeuvring themselves in to neutrality by sitting on the fence. They're all just a bunch of toff upper class half arsed salesmen, no substance and no ear for anything they don't want to hear. They've had it all their own way the vast majority of their lives like a bunch of spoilt brats. I honestly don't like any of them as people and here in lies the problem. It's simply too hard for the vast majority to be able to connect with these 'eaton boys'. Ok a quality education is good but it isn't a divine right to propel you in to leading the country. I want somebody I can relate to, somebody a little more down to earth. I suspect the country feels similar to me in the fact that it's hard to have some twonk who's lived the life of luxury since birth standing there faking empathy and telling you what they 'think' you want to hear. If I had to pick the best from the current bad bunch I'd still have to go with Cameron as a bloke over the other 2, although I'm not even happy about that. Clegg is just a stubborn sod who at times seems deluded quiet frankly Milliband is quite simply the wrong brother, Labour screwed the pooch there as out of the two they somehow picked the one who looks like a Wallace and gromit character with absolutely no back bone what so ever. The whole thing needs a huge shake up IMO and if this UKIP success is the catalyst for that then I'm all for it. I just hope the current parties actually start to take notice and make some harsh but necessary sweeping changes throughout their ranks.
Makes me laugh with derision when Tony Blair says: "Look below the surface of UKIP and you will find something unpleasant and nasty" 'Pot, Kettle and Black' spring to mind.
One of the council guys here got my vote because he was the only councillor who could be arsed to knock on the door in person, rather than sending a flunkey. The only independent on the list.
Yes, you are. What I want, and prize most highly, is the right to vote in my own country for members to represent me in the Parliament of Europe, and that is exactly what you want to deprive me of. Which is, frankly, despicable. Of course I can vote for the local parliament, county, city, mayor, borough, parish, police commissioner, or whatever, but those are small beer. Try telling an American you want to deprive him of his vote for the federal congress but it's OK since he can still vote in his own state - and see what the reaction is!
That's fair Pete, but it's equally our right to vote on our participation in Europe. Equally despicable that we have no vote in that regard.
Have you noticed how the main party leaders are still not listening. Summonsed to Brussels to explain why they are failing to sell a United States of Europe dream.
You don't need a referendum. If the people of the UK were to vote in a majority of MPs who favour withdrawing from the EU, the UK can withdraw immediately by denouncing the treaties and repealing the acts. That has been the position for the past 40 years. Europe has been an issue in every general election since 1970, and the Europhobes have lost every single one. They only need to win once. All this fluff about a referendum is manipulation - the Europhobes know they haven't a hope of ever winning a general election, so they have contrived a stratagem to give themselves a chance of achieving their ends by circuitous means. The real question is: should the UK be a member state of the EU? Not: should there be a referendum?
I'm not happy with voting for whomever I choose under the pretence that we will end up with a government that represents the majority. Balls. If a party can get in with 35% of the vote then 65% of the voting populace aren't represented. The winning party should require above 50% to win and should keep trying to convince voters until they have it. Work for the people, not yourself.
Taking your quote above literally, you seem to be saying that you prize electing MEPs above everything else. Is that what you really mean ? Is voting for MEPs is more important to you than voting in the UK general elections ? Which is more despicable, depriving you of your vote on electing MEPs or depriving me of the opportunity to vote in a referendum on continued membership of the EU ? Why not have regular referendums between elections, maybe this would get more of the electorate involved and feeling their opinion counted unlike recent general elections where parties have focussed on small groups of voters in a few key constituencies . I hope that the results of last week cause a big shape up and lead to a more benign,looser, less interfering and less legislative EU that retains most of the positives and loses most of the negatives but sadly I doubt that will happen. Lets celebrate the differences between the nations instead of trying to impose a one size fits all set of rules.
