+1 on torque wrench, trouble is a quality wrench that goes to 230Nm is expensive, a Sykes Picavent is around £130, fortunately I have a mechanic friend with one! As to breaker bar, I'd recommend a 3/4" as the knuckle is much more 'beefy' and bar tends to be thicker too. I was trying to use a 1/2" bar with 1/2" to 3/4" adapter before tyre guy used his air wrench, not good idea! Bar was bending so much I thought it was going to snap!
Well just adding to the 'tales of woe' here regarding rear wheel nut removal!! I got a puncture while out yesterday and got B/D recovery back home planning today, to remove the wheel ready for tyre replacement. I've got one of those Oberon sockets as well, which I have used twice before to remove the wheel nut, but as others have said, they are clearly virtually unfit for the task, as yes you've guessed it, mine has totally rounded off in the 1/2" square drive side and now I am stuffed. I'm going to look to buy another socket and as I haven't got any form of extension bar to add leverage, I'm going to have to call-out the tyre guys to deal with it, noting all of the key points made about re-fitting and NOT allowing the use of anything other than a torque wrench. I have got a Halfords 'professional' torque wrench, which I am not that impressed with either, as this is the second one I have had as the first was replaced due to the drive shaft twisting and now it looks like this one is starting to twist as well!
I have a Halfords pro that goes up to 300NM and I've been very impressed with it. I don't use it to undo the rear wheel not though - just to torque it back up when refitting. To undo the wheel I have a draper 55mm socket with a 3/4" drive bar that I put a short piece of pipe on to increase leverage...
+1 on Halfords Pro Torque Wrenches - I've got two a 0-80Nm and and 300Nm and they have both been absolutely fine and have had them both for quite a few years now. On a separate point - you should never ever ever you a torque wrench to loosen a nut / bolt!
Steve, I think I am going to need to go the breaker bar + socket route and then as you have pointed out, use the torque wrench to tighten the nut back up after removal. I assumed that as the wrench was good for up to 300N/M, it should have handled the task easily, but in my case the fact that the wrench drive looks to be twisting for the second time, doesn't exactly fill me with that much confidence. Thanks for your thoughts. Where did you get the socket from, what make, etc? Regards
998, Clearly both you and Steve are on the same wave-length here and perhaps I've been a bit dim on the torque wrench application front, using it the wrong way, maybe. Either way your feedback is appreciated. Cheers:frown:
Mine is a Draper 6 point socket...... perfect for the job and made from proper metal and not ally like some of the stiff you see on fleabay
I feel your pain , been there,never had a problem with my 916 but the thug of a 1098 is a different story. I bought a socket from the dealer when I got the bike and before I used it I had the chamfer machined off to give it an extra couple of mill. As said a long bar is your friend and NEVER PUT IT IN GEAR
Mine fell off. OK not quite true but not far from it. Bike not quite 2 months old, 1500 miles on the clock, enjoying the ride on Sunday, when bang! wobble! stop! bugger! Flat rear tyre. Large piece of metal embedded it self into the centre of the tyre making a gash about 3/4 inch wide. Got bike recovered home. I had already bought the stainless steel socket from the US and a 300Nm torque wrench in readiness for rear wheel removal. However I was not expecting to use it quite so soon. Anyway my mate came over with his breaker bar and length of tubing, ready to do battle. First have a cup of tea. Now fully prepared for battle, I sat on bike with rear brake on and was just readying myself when he exclaimed it was undone! No way was my nut tightened to 230 Nm. Surely this is a PDI check. Somebody has not being doing their job. It was a relief that it came undone so easily, but having slept on it, I'm now bloody annoyed that it was not torqued correctly. PR3s ordered lets hope these last more than 1500 miles.
Just picked up a 50-200Nm Norbar of fleabay for 30sobs. Some bargains on there. Already have the 4-20Nm. Ive never torqued my rear wheel up to the setting. Ive a metre long socket bar and I just use this to tighten it up to around the same spot. i.e where the circlip is lined up okay. It always needs a tighten nudge just to get it to line up properly. been doing this since 2000 when got 916 and never had any issues. Plus i regularly remove rear wheel when on a cleaning blitz. I also copper slip the shaft and thread. Plus the obvious thing of zip tieing the circlip. If my rear ever comes off it will be a miracle. I do, however, always torque up things like the rear hub concentric bolts. Things like that. But the rear...meh...as long as its fucking tight via my long bar then its fine.
A "new" bike like yours at 2 months old would move quite easily with a breaker bar. Give it another few months of winter riding and the nut will have "bonded" with the spindle. Getting off then may well be a different story! I got my rear wheel off just as easily as you after about 6 weeks when I had a cut in the tyre, 6 months on and a new tyre needed, then the nut proved reluctant to move without quite a lot of pressure.
Veetwin when you say "bonded" are you saying that over time the nut and spindle corrode together. The nut cannot tighten by itself after all its wire locked. I do not quite see how the two threads seem to bond. I'm planning on coating all the surfaces and threads with ACF50 Block Grease, maybe this will prevent this locking of the threads.
Not sure how they "bond" - brake dust, road grit, heat? Don't know, but in my experience a new nut is easier to move - even when correctly torqued up - than one that has been on for 4 or 5,000 miles. As you say the wire lock would stop it coming undone and maybe grease block would help but the more miles you do it seems the harder they are to get undone.
From what you have experienced then maybe I'll undo the nut clean and re-grease every 3000 miles or 6 months. Regular maintenance should hopefully sort this problem. Anyway thanks for your input. Does anyone know way its torqued to 230Nm. There must be a valid reason for such a high value.
dont forget that by lubricating the nut, when you torque it up it will actually go tighter than normal. your then likely to have even more of an issue undoing it... I have been trying to get the chain side nut off my bike with no luck. tried the 3/4" drive metre long breaker bar, snap on air gun, took it to dealers on Saturday and they couldn't shift it either (me sat on bike, three of them pulling on the bar, bent the bar !). Their suggestion was to try a tyre centre that does lorries and has more manly rattle-guns. I took this off earlier in the year to swap the chain and sprockets, and replaced it with a torque wrench, so know it was torqued correctly at the time.
I don't know what size nut is used on the bikes with the Ducati recommended torque of 230 Nm. Here are some recommended torque values for various thread sizes: Pre-load and Tightening torques for steel fasteners - Standard Metric Threads In my experience problems tend to arise when distortion of the threads occur from over tightening, or overheating when using 'rattle guns'
Well that table is useless for a ducati rear wheel nut. It is suitable for standard metric steel fasteners of course. The Ducati nut / thread is M38 x 1.25 ............. A standard M38 nut would be around 2500Nm max tightening torque
I notice that when listing torque settings, unless stated otherwise, Ducati mention a tolerance of + or - 10%. So assuming your wrench is accurate it'll be fine to bring it down from 230 to 210. - Wouldn't fancy upping it by 10% though. There's no mention of using any form of grease or Loctite on the rear wheel nut thread either (they would say so if they recommended using it). Having said that, I'm guessing that when a nut or spindle manufacturer makes a batch of items, they are all coated in a very light oil to prevent corrosion. After all, a large box of wheelnuts or any nuts/bolts may have to stay on a shelf for a long time before use. So when built at the factory, they're not entirely "dry". Prior to re-assembly, definitely wouldn't clean the threads using a degreaser chemical - far too clean! I couldn't resist using a bit of copperslip on mine.
From my experience none of the manufacturers use any form of lube on fixings. All threads seem dry. I have always assumed that was just to save time in the manufacturing process. In the past I always used copperslip but now use ACF50 Grease for its anti-corrosion properties. I appreciate torque values are for dry threads so usually reduce the value by 10% when used with grease. This is just a guess I have not been able to find any information with regards dry / greased threads. My gut feeling for the rear nut is to torque it to 200 Nm. Why such a high torque, anyone ?
