Trouble is that the tyre deforms under load, so it's impossible to work out at what point you'd have a maximum footprint with the bike stationary.
No - very true and a good point but I'm guessing when youre saying "under load" I'm presuming hard cornering or cornering at speed yes?
Yeah, that's correct. Check out some slow motion footage of Moto GP, BSB or the TT to see how much the cornering forces acting on the tyre affect the contact patch. Basically, up to a point, the more loading, the more the tyre squishes and smears itself into the road surface, thereby increasing it's footprint. Other factors such as tyre construction and rubber compound will also have an effect on this phenomenon.
A loaded question - i think someone who would be using this would not be doing moto gp speeds/cornering/hard acceleration on exit but more a tool for finding the limits of lean angle safely...ie finding the max lean angle (on the tyres youre on), on a big sweeper or large roundabout....ie cruising round off the throttle...
Establishing full lean angle to the edge of the tyre when stationary doesn't give the full picture. The contact patch and the amount of grip available at a given angle of lean is dramatically affected by camber and rider posture/weight distribution. Unless the device is able to calculate and compensate for camber and shifts in centre of gravity on the bike, a rider sitting perpendicular to the bike on a reverse camber bend could be sliding down the road on his leathers before he reaches the maximum angle of lean available when measured on the level, while a rider hanging off on a positive camber bend could push further in safety.
Yes but the product says it measures the lean angle of the bike not weather the rider is hanging off as much or not...again the point I'm making is that it gives a good if not (and agreed) general indication of "where youre at" with regards to lean angle....going back to my previous example....when cornering the lad in front of me was leant over at the edge of the contact patch (on a roundabout) and we're doing about 40 ish and i can see, cos I'm a couple of metres behind his back tyre and can clearly see exactly "where he's at" so In summary... 1. He's leant over 2. He's got a full contact patch (and at the edge of the tyre) but not exceeding it, i can see this very clearly 3. We're not going fast by any means 4. We're not on the throttle, going round off the throttle. 5. The camber of the road is flat, the tarmac is smooth and road surface is good. Now, with regards to all the above points, if you took the rider out of the equation in front. I would be a bit more upright thinking i was further over. The lean angle device would get me to that position of the bike in front without having to have the bike in front to see the edge of the tyre. After all i cant see the edge of my own tyre while I'm on it and in mid corner. So, lets assume that the above scenario is played out on numerous occasions by said rider, on his own, without anyone in front for a guage and with the leanometer. That rider would get "a feel" for being leant over, safely in that scenario....then (and this is assuming) the rider becomes more familiar with whats safe will then know if for example hes on a road with a camber, as you say that he could go over more, or possibly less if the camber is against him.. As they say its not the be all and end all but a good tool for learning... Put it this way, if i had a 150 quid to throw around then i'd get one....it'd be an interesting gadget to mess around with...and i say that cos i know I'm not the best rider in the world, far from it and, as ive said sometimes i think I'm further over than i am and on other bikes its the other way round... I think from the replies that ive seen the general consensus is "itll never work in this that or the other situation" when i don't think it job is to turn you into VR with the addition of a box...its just a quide line but to be used in a neutral situation as possible...
i think tat is a bit harsh...but that's my opinion though...i think ive been pretty full and exact with my reasoning and explanations rather than just dismiss it as tat - having said that - in total acceptance you could do the same thing with a cheap phone and an app....the one thing i did notice is that in the fitting instructions it says it must be installed totally vertical - just the same as my phone when i was messing around with the app - problem is with the phone vertical - yer cant see it... Could any top level boffins explain why it has to be vertical (for the phone and the leanometer) - after all, all you need is the left and right angles...
Nothing wrong with technology, however I'd not want to risk having a hernia picking my bike up from a staged lean angle in my garage:Wideyed:
Sorry comfysofa, but are you saying that the lad in front of you was leaning further over than you, but you were both negotiating the roundabout at the same speed and if you had this gadget you'd know you could lean over further ?
Yeah... You could say that. He was a bit further over than me and I thought I was over at my max which I wasn't... Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk
Yeah.... 1. I think I'm carrying torch on this one... 2. Think I'm just about to get singled out for ridicule as i dont know the exact lean angle of my bike... Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk
In my head I'm about an inch away from elbow down, but then in my head I'm about an inch away from a 12 inch dong! Working that math backwards, that must mean in reality I've a -23" penis. Agree that it's a crap thing to have displaying in front of you. I'd like it on an app or data logger though, only because I'm a geek though. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If that's the case comfysofa and you are negotiating that roundabout at the same speed as him, why do you want to lean over further ? Sorry but please excuse me being dull, if you were doing a stationary lean angle test on your bike, wouldn't you have to compress the suspension totally to have a true maximum angle of lean and as mentioned earlier, what if your on a positive or negative camber on the road, couldn't you get caught out.
more lean is something i'm aiming for but I'm not very good at it, i've still got about a stone and a half to go.
"If that's the case comfysofa and you are negotiating that roundabout at the same speed as him, why do you want to lean over further" To explore lean angle...that, i think is the point of the whole discussion and the device...to see where you are... "if you were doing a stationary lean angle test on your bike, wouldn't you have to compress the suspension totally to have a true maximum angle of lean and as mentioned earlier" Maybe I'm answering this incorrectly but my point about testing while stationary is that you can see with your eye at what angle the bike is and see the contact patch. I think (and I'm sure someone will correct me here) the lean angle is might be less as if the bike is under full compression mid corner then then the bike is going to be closer to the floor causing the fairing/pegs etc etc to come into contact with the road sooner so the bike would have to be stood up a little more to negate this... "what if your on a positive or negative camber on the road, couldn't you get caught out" Yes, but that wasn't the point - i did state that i think that this device would be best used on a neutral camber/flat road and then once the rider "gets a feel" for his maximum lean angle then that in future would be tailored to the surroundings ie if your going round windy corner on the mountain section then youre lean angle will be a lot more as the camber is really steep. I'm not a sales rep for the company - i just thought it was a good idea and thought that the application was quite nifty. I'm not the best rider in the world but i have my moments, I'm not going to go out and buy one tomorrow - it looked like a good and safe way of know exactly where you are on the bike - ie how far over...
I prefer my seat of the pants leanometer. It needs to be calibrated by being paired with the correct suspension set-up and trusted tyres at the right pressures and then its pretty good and does seem to automatically compensate for camber and centre of gravity. Sometimes it gets stuck in Chicken mode and I haven't worked out how to re-set that on the fly. I have to pull over for a tea break and press reset. Tanking round a bend and finding mounds of green horse shit on the road which weren't visible on entry can scramble the software as well. But, touch wood, it generally works pretty well.
