I don't understand whatever point you are trying to make here. One of the great things about this forum is that we are all quite polite to each other - very few threats or personal insults. Another good thing is that many of the folk on here meet up personally from time to time. I've enjoyed meeting quite a number, and hope to meet many more. I generally find that that everyone expects to be treated as an adult, not humoured as if they were children. Are you suggesting I'm wrong?
And with respect. Too many of your posts have a patronising air about them which demonstrates what some may consider a lack of respect. I know many on here have crossed horns with you before and to be honest I don't find your posts too offensive or bothersome but surely it would be intelligent to consider that not everyone else is wrong all the time. This thread started as a discussion on animal welfare but your post ruffled enough feathers to shift the focus to your posting style. The only person to blame for that is you so don't start feeling hard done by. And before you start saying no one should be offended or saying i/we have missed the point, why not take a moment and wonder if you could have done anything differently or better to avoid all the confrontation..... It just gets boring after a while @Pete1950 and you have too much to offer this forum for it to be lost in petty arguments after you post.
I like a bit of venison if that helps, nice medallion medium rare with mash topping and green beans. Yum
Pussyfooting around people on the assumption that they are delicate flowers who cannot cope with criticism - that would be showing a profound lack of respect. Debating with people robustly, on the assumption that we are all equals who can stand up for ourselves - that is true respect.
Oh peter if you genuinely cannot see that your tone is patronising at the very least then I am afraid you are beyond help. There you go again ' if you can find any' the omnipotent peter. The process of challenging does not upset me why would it? I enjoy healthy debate I enjoy learning from those evidently more intelligent than I. But to believe that you are more intelligent than others on this site is arrogance personified.
Avoid confrontation? Somebody posts a highly provocative, controversial post and others, including me, challenge it. Which is fine. If you want to "avoid confrontation" - well, if you cant stand the heat, you could always choose to stay out of the kitchen. I rather like the kitchen.
There you go again making assumptions on how others may feel whilst attempting to minimise your input. Bravo. I can not add anything further, as you appear to ignore all the other posts that corroborate my views. My case is made m'lud.
Pete, there have just been some very insightful posts which you should read and take to heart. There is a fine line between robust challenging debate and aggressive confrontational debate. And remember no one likes a smart arse. I mostly enjoy your posts, even if you are a liberal lefty soft on the EU, but sometimes you use a sledgehammer to crack a nut. This isn't the Oxford Union or a Court Of Law, it is supposed to be fun.
So can we assume from your Turkey, Rabbit and Kangaroo posts that you couldn't give a flying fuck about Veal or animal husbandry ?
Pete: You clearly have no clue concerning the point you're arguing. Poster: Are you telling me I have no clue? Pete: If you feel that you haven't a clue, I can hardly be blamed for that, can I? It's really funny. I enjoy it
I just come from reading a thread about baking bread! I mean come on, baking and you ask me about animal husbandry!
I'm a dairy farmer who rears hundreds of calves a year. As a farmer I am passionate about my animals and see my job a vocation and regularly put in 80 hour weeks, that includes weekends, Christmas and New year . I'm on call 24/7 365 days a year to ensure my animals are happy and healthy. I have over 500 pedigree dairy cows and know all of them as individuals. Yes I'm in it to make a profit but the level of commitment and personal sacrifice is something that most people can't even begin to comprehend and goes beyond money. In modern society most people have become so distanced in their understanding of where food comes from that a lot just think it grows on a supermarket shelf. In recent years the pressures that have been put on farmers and growers to produce cheap food is unbelievable. Supermarkets dictate the price I get paid for my milk, I either produce it at their price and clear a profit or I go out of business, this is the same in all areas of food production. People have a romantic image of farming, cows basking in a pasture, hens pecking round a farm yard and farmer who leans on a gate all day. Rubbish. Supermarkets are forcing farmers down the factory farm path, larger farms, more animals, an economy of scale to compensate for a smaller profit margin per livestock unit. You can't have it both ways if you want cheap food. This country has the highest standards of animal welfare in the world and it policed stringently, so it is an insult to British farmers when our food is put on the shelves next to food that has come from god knows where, from animals that have been reared in conditions that don't come even close to ours. The supermarkets call it 'giving the customer choice' but it's just double standards. calves which are dairy bull calves have become an unwanted by product of the dairy industry. There used to be a market for rearing them for beef but again because of market pressures and supermarkets winding down the price of beef there is no longer any profit to be made. It's a sad fact that many dairy bull calves are shot at birth. I personally do not do this because it goes against what I'm about. I rear them to a fortnight old and sell them at market for a loss. A method we use to prevent bull calves being born in the first place is using sexed semen when we artificially inseminate the cows. We can now choose the sex of the calves we want. We have a 90% chance of our cows giving birth to a female calf. A lot of pictures you see on the internet (including the OPs) are not in this country, are years old, usually taken by animal rights fanatics and are misleading and meant to provoke a reaction. Veal production in this country is not very common at all.
Thanks BIG M, yes I did post to provoke a reaction but it wasn't quite what I was expecting. I was hoping to trigger a wider discussion about animal husbandry. How we treat our animals helps define who we are, I am glad to hear that you take pride in maintaining the highest standards and I do sympathise with you over the way in which supermarkets dictate terms to farmers. If we can't catch it,kill it and cook it we do have a responsibility to ensure the food we eat is produced ethically, it is a pity that some people can't or won't see this.
A good thread, I thought, with some interesting strands. Hats off to BIG M. I saw a documentary about this subject a year or so ago - farmers having to bump off young animals prematurely because it costs them money to keep them alive - and it was just very sad. I am interested in the focus on veal whereas it's considered fine to eat lamb. Not at all sure of the differences in husbandry practices. Veal production has been infamous for decades so I barely ever buy it. Pity - there's a wickedly good Italian recipe for it with lemon. I am also with BIG M on the scandal of supermarkets squeezing farmers into poverty. It's Europe wide at least. Both French and Swiss farmers are being sent to the wall as the price paid for milk by the supermarkets barely covers production costs. I think farmers should organise co-ops to band together for strength to stick it to the supermarkets. I also think it's bullshit that supposedly the poor need to have access to 50p chickens or whatever. People have never spent such a small proportion of their income on food (thanks to supermarkets beating up all their suppliers). The people who supposedly can't afford properly reared meat can afford unlimited biscuits, crisps, fizzy drinks, fast food, mobile phone bills and video games. In about 1970, a chicken was still a luxury. We used to have it sometimes at weekends but more often than not it was for holidays like Easter. In much of Europe you will never see a pig in a field. Ponder that next time you eat a sausage and bear in mind that even British bacon can just be imported and only prepared on the UK. The whole meat industry is a hive of dissimulation.
Some fantastic posts from Big M and Glid there. I usually avoid cliches like the plague but the one about the public knowing the price of everything but the value of nothing seems so appropriate here. As Ducati owners here we are generally going to have decided to pay a premium for our bikes against what else was available. We did this because Ducati offered something extra that we felt was worth the premium . Not cheap but (hopefully) worthwhile. Maybe think about what you eat the same way. Buy the cheapest tomatoes you can and find they taste of nothing or pay a premium and buy some that actually taste like tomatoes.
