Pigs are as intelligent as dogs, cows have individual personalities and don't even think about cats; all are protective of their young. If we are going to eat them we need to treat them with respect. However should we be producing large quantities of cheap meat. Growing grain to feed animals to produce protein is inefficient and produces large quantities of waste, should we be eating the grain ourselves. Should the eating of meat return to being an occasional treat ? 2/3rds of the worlds antibiotics are used in farming and help to produce antibiotic resistant superbugs. Ultimately the market will decide but we need to reconnect to real food and move away from mass produced highly processed food, we would be fitter and healthier as a result.
Some good points have been made here. The fact is that in this country as it is with all developed nations we live our lives with full bellies we never have to think about where our next meal is coming from, the only hassle we have with it is the chore of cooking it!. Because of this we have over many generations come to see animals in a 'fluffy' light, something that is there to be looked after, protected, and enjoyed, we have become psychologically separated from them as a food source. The food which has been bought from a clinical environment just turns up on plate prepared and cooked and we don't have to mentally deal with the ugly bit of killing it ourselves. I'm quite sure if a lions food had turned up on a plate three times a day for the last hundred years gazelles would now be fat and not know how to run. However if you suddenly took that food security away the lion would soon revert back to type as would we. As a farmer I see food security in the future as a worry. When I was a child in the late 70's - early 80's every village and town had numerous grocers and butchers, this was the back bone of our country, it provided local trade, jobs, a sense of community and everyone made a living from it. Then the supermarkets started to emerge, slowly and systematically they squeezed the smaller retailers out of business. The buzz word in business used to be 'profit' but supermarkets taught us the important word was 'control', if you control a market then the profits are an unstoppable side effect. The worry is where is this all going to end?, supermarkets such as Tesco's have become so used to increasing profits year on year that they have just become used to it. The fact profits have dropped to 1.75 billion is considered disappointing!. The trend is the same with the other big four supermarkets. But they are fighting back and vow to offer better value to their customers and increased profits. This leaves only one avenue. Reduce the price that they pay for the food in the first place. Pay farmers and growers even less!. I've had a reduction in my milk price, my costs are still the same and rising!. Every time there is a reduction it becomes the final nail for some people and they go out of business, because 1.75 billion is enough!. Sooner or later they will be no food producers left . The squeeze will continue, as farming practises try to adapt and become more efficient in a bid to survive the supermarkets will want that share also.
I like veal, I've eaten it plenty of times. I also like foie gras, the real deal not the faux gras designed to ease our guilt. Being top of the food chain as we are, means we have a choice and I'm aware animals suffer so I can eat. It doesn't bother me that much to be honest. I don't worry if the cow was happy before being slaughtered for my plate. If I did place animals in this higher plane, the way the likes of PETA do then I have to consider if my use of a wasp nest destroyer isn't brutally cruel. Some animals, usually based on size are seen as more important. Plenty of bugs get caught on my leathers and die a quick and spectacular death yet no one cares. Caring about an animal based on the perception it has feelings and is intelligent does make sense at some levels but there are plenty of humans dying who have less concern thrust upon them. Never have a pet that isn't also an ingredient.
I disagree with you about the price of meat Glidd. I wouldn't be able to afford meat 7 days a week at current prices but I understand the cost is not any individuals fault. It's the fault of capitalism and the pressure to constantly increase profits. The fuel, the feed, the storage, the medicine. All the added costs of rearing an animal to be eaten push the price higher than I can personally afford to pay. It's much cheaper to eat vegetables, potatoes, pasta, mushrooms etc and still have a balanced diet. In fact, eggs can be bought cheaply and contain fantastic amounts of protein. I eat 6 eggs a day and occasionally eat meat. It's also a problem that it's not really legal or feasible to go and provide your own meat source unless you want to eat rabbit all week long. Even then you need permission to shoot/hunt/trap on the land you use. It should also be recognised that huge quantities of meat are also a relatively new thing. It should also be mentioned that you could live quite healthily, although somewhat boringly on potatoes (skins on) and a little milk or butter alone. They provide everything you need.
In the uk at least the problem is that those on benefits want to live the same life as those who work for their living, I.e. A meat rich diet, beer, wine, Xbox etc. rather than society identifying that these things are the trappings of hard work we just squeeze the suppliers until the food is cheap enough for everyone to afford. This is a double edged sword - suppliers (farmers) see an ever tightening profit margin, and the incentive to work is deminished. Life on benefits should be an existence, not a lifestyle. On a recent program on benefits, one scrounger recently said "if I want a 3d tv it's no ones business but mine" sorry, if it's purchased with my money, it's my business. To get back on topic, good quality proper meat is available, but predominantly at farmers markets. Don't want to see your local butcher close? Don't point the ginger at tesco, get in there and buy the higher quality product.
I've eaten Veal and don't much care for it but am not concerned enough to want to stop anyone else from eating it. However i do like Foie Gras and not ashamed to say so. I wonder how many people that object to consuming Veal drink milk.
Society needs recipients of benefits to spend their cash on shit they don't need to keep the wheels of the capitalist economy turning
It is all part of the growth paradigm that supports our financial system. The profit motive drives down costs and one of the major costs is people. It is cheaper to move vast quantities of produce in 40 ton trucks to supermarkets than use smaller vehicles to supply many small grocers. Self service checkouts are on the increase, this drives down costs but puts people out of work. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer and the middle gets squeezed. How many times have I said this recently ? Ultimately we get what we support but we can only support what we can afford. The lack of empathy some posters have shown towards the animals they eat is disturbing, to equate large farm animals with insects and imply that because we show no compassion to one why should we show compassion to the other is very disturbing.
pingping10101, capitalism has created the glut of cheap food that we all have access to, remember the images of the Soviet Union when people queued around the block for bread two days a week. But you are right in that unless we consume more and more stuff the growth paradigm grinds to a halt. Time for a change, but to what ?
This is the problem. I don't have a solution but I'm pretty sure the wealthy won't want to give up their wealth. Capitalism is broken and can only end in failure.
I agree but unfortunately the same principles are employed when it comes to the living and breathing, this is why people die in hospital corridors, neglected and forgotten about. So there's not much hope for the care of animals.
Why must capitalism fail ? We seem to be very good at creating new things to buy and i don't see this changing, ever. The "thing" that you buy can just as easily be a service as a tangible object so the argument of resources doesn't hold water. If you want to buy it someone will make sure you can(and add a margin along the way) "Build it and they will come" is so true. As a race we will continue to do this. I am not saying this is right or wrong i just believe it to be true.
Great thread supermarkets have a lot to answer for it's not only our farmers who suffer. It's whole communities , because their products are so cheap it's natural for the majority of people to buy from them , thus local small shops in the communities close. 20 years ago in our village we had numerous shops fruit and veg, fresh bakery, butchers, post office, etc now we have one shop, the shopping was done daily you met people in the village daily the elderly where respected. Now it's a lot different for the worse I think. Super markets have to keep share holders happy, the only way to do this is give producers less money for their products.
Foie Grs, Force feeding like this in my honest opinion, which apparently I have still have a right, is cruel. Force feeding is not the natural way, forcing down the throat of the animal. I don't eat dog, but have seen many images I wish I hadn't. I live around farms and they are good healthy businesses and they work darn hard. They obviously are well looked after. If EU funds are needed to keep them that way, I have no problem with it. There is no excuse to mistreat animals for any reason, whether or not they are for food. What gives people the right to just say, hey its food, we are top of the food chain. What a crock of shit. You walk into a wild animals territory and lets see how long you survive. Personally, I firmly believe that if you have no concern for animal welfare, then you are missing something.
Capitalism is destined to fail because rich people will continue to get richer. The wealth becomes less and less divided, until a handful of individuals own everything and everyone else is a serf.
