What Oil?

If...?

 

As has been said before, there is a much greater risk to an engine by changing the oil more often than needed. If the book says 6,000 and you change at 3,000 then there is twice the risk of not tightening the filter or drain plug correctly and that can lead to total oil loss when riding which will destroy the engine. If instead you use any modern synthetic or semi synthetic oil and leave it for the 6,000 miles then you have more chance of winning the lottery than you have of having your engine wear out due to a bad oil.
If an oil looks black it means it is doing what it is meant to do. If it looks new after many miles then be worried as the oil is not working properly.

 

Bob T
Not true at all.
Some people use various tricks like jubilee clips around filters or locking oil filters to stop them coming undone, same with drain plugs, lock-wired into place.
Take for example any oil of your choosing that you would leave in your engine for the 6000 miles. After a period of time it will go black just as you say. This indicates that it is doing its detergent role as expected.
Now take the same example oil and replace it at 3000 miles. It is doing the same job and is on its way to going black it just hasn't got there yet.
We don't all change the oil because its gone black.

 

Not sure what is not true. I never have had wire locking or jubilee clips where Ducati did not put them, so I am probably the same as 99% of Ducatis on the road.
Having work all of my life in aircraft engineering I can assure you that the more you disturb a system, oil system in this case, the more chance there is of failure due to that disturbance. Things are missed in aircraft engineering even after check signature and sometime an independent signature have checked the job.
In aviation the engine is a vital part of surviving a flight, but even in that world no one changes the oil more often than the manufacturer recommends.
But we live in a free world and people are entitled to take any risks that they want with the servicing of their bikes.

 

I think the 'risks' involved in changing oil is a bit overstated, I would understand if you had to disturb other systems but on most Ducati's it is just a sump plug and filter and then checking the correct amount of oil has been replaced and the filler cap refitted correctly, nothing else is disturbed.

But having said that I still see little point in changing oil outside recommended schedules, presumably manufacturers will have estimated the oil would be perfectly OK to go beyond the mileage specified so changing it earlier is throwing away perfectly good oil to no advantage - if it ain't broke don't fix it

 

Bob - correct me if I'm reading it incorrectly, but it appears that the only "danger" you are quoting for changing oil more often than specified comes from operator error...
I have worked in marine engineering for 35 years - we change the oil in engines at the OEM's recommended intervals, but will do it early if it fits the ship's program to do so. I have never heard of an engine failure due to operator error during oil change routines, but I have heard of engines failing due to oil changes being neglected or delayed.
Given correct, careful, maintenance routines there is no danger from changing oil early. There are many dangers from doing it late...

 

I speak from experience as far as operator error is concerned. I used to know a chap who would service his BMW K1200RS himself, he had been doing it for years and was well practised in everything on that bike. He would change his oil every 3000 miles rather than the 6000 that BMW told him to, but one day something caught him out and he never torqued the sump plug up. It didn't leak for a few days, but let go on the A47 in Norfolk. He noticed lights coming on and told us that he was quite quick pulling the clutch in while the back end was all over the place. he still dropped the bike and the engine was totalled. Rather than having an engine that lasted for ever due to regular oil changes, he wrecked the engine with about 25k miles on it due to regular oil changes (and becoming complacent). he was not injured at all.
Operator error happens all of the time, look at how many car accidents there are, they come under that category.
If the oil is within its change interval then leave it there rather then disturb something that is working fine.
As I have said many times before the individual owns the bike and can do what he wants with it, but disturbing a system that does not need disturbing will always carry some risk.

 

This experienced pilot took off from my airfield. He had taken off hundreds of times and knew all of the checks that he should do. There should never be a problem, except on this particular day he forgot to check his weight limits (and that could be the same as tightening a sump plug). The trees were very unforgiving.

 

My wife made that! It is the rear of my 848 when it had standard cans on it. I think that she may have put a couple of "eyes" in the ends of the silencers.
If she joins this forum then I am sure that she will have similar with either the ST2 or one of the other bikes. The rear of the ST looks great from the back with the standard pannier frames cut down and LED indicators fitted.

 

Should have used Castrol Hypoy EP90..................or straight STP.............

Tightens up all loose gearboxes and diffs...........

........and if it needs a bit more quietening down, add some sawdust..............

.......once saw a neighbour do that with his 4+4 Morgan........

.........and then he sold it.

 

Mr R, how could you mention this in the same context as a Ducati? Shame on you.

 

Bugger me your getting too technical
it's quite simple if ya changing every couple of thou use a good semi if your following service schedules use fully , the only change to this is if your bloody fast and only do track work then only use fully and change regularly .

 

I take your point but if it had happened at 6000 miles, something distracted him? The mileage is not really relevant, it's the increased chance of user error, and that can happen with any maintenance. One could argue that more frequent changes make one more used to doing it, and therefore less prone to error. Could argue it either way.

Presumably oil has a curve of decline, so although it is designed to be ok and within determined tolerances, for say up to 6000 miles, for arguments sake, it is optimal up to 3000 miles.

So it's not wrong to do either. Left could also be right, or indeed left!

 

So... One person who should have known better, on one occasion, made a mistake. Compared to the thousands of people who change their oil perfectly safely and correctly... Hardly seems like a scientific argument to me - more an illustration of someone not going back and checking when they should have know to do so : poor engineering standards, nothing more...

 

Did I say that? One person who I know, there could be many others. Have you noticed that cars have bumpers front and back? They are there because people make mistakes all of the time.
Having worked for all of my life in aircraft engineering I can tell you that mistakes happen all of the time. I make engineering decisions based on my knowledge and my experience, but these decisions are what I apply to my my servicing of my bikes and my cars.
Why do people jump in a criticise something for the fun of it? No one is telling you what to do.
As I have said all along, it is up to YOU when you change the oil on YOUR bike and what oil you use.
I'm out of here.

 

Makes me feel less confident about getting in an aeroplane every time you post...
I've worked in marine engineering all my working life - from what you've posted I have to say I think our engineering standards are higher than those in the aviation industry. Mistakes happen - every now and again - but good engineering standards, checks and controls, will identify those mistakes before they become a problem or cause any damage.
The OP asked a question : You answered it, and so did I... Just offering my opinion.

 

I think to be fair to Bob T all he is saying is that in aviation industry you stick to the service schedules - I also worked in that industry for 20 odd years and can confirm this. You might do a particular service slightly earlier if the aircraft was subject to some unscheduled maintenance, but that's the same if your car/bike broke down a few miles before a service was due, whilst it's getting repaired you may as well get the service done. Outside of that everything else gets done at exactly the time specified.

I wouldn't like to say which industry has the higher engineering standards. My experience in aviation is that standards of maintenance and record-keeping are high, I would expect a similar standard can be found in other disciplines. There are bad engineers everywhere, or good engineers having a bad day but as you suggest there should be checks and controls to stop this.

 

Remember that the oil spec on the side of your 4 litres of oil is a minimum standard. Any given can of oil will start off better able to protect your engine than it is likely to in x thousand miles.
I prefer to change mine towards the front of that sliding curve than towards the back end, just sayin'...

 

We are talking about one plastic filler cap, one oil filter and one sump plug?!?

I put Mobil1 Delvac Diesel Engine Oil in all my bikes - great stuff. Great gear changes as it has no frictions modifiers.

My WR450F with Rekluse Clutch gives the oil a good test. I used to use Motorcycle Fully Synthetic and could feel the oil going off/clutch starting to drag after 200 Km or so. With the Delvac I can get 3-4 times that distance before clutch drag. My Multistrada runs approx 8 degrees cooler too.